[powerbench]

I can appreciate everyone's point of view but hey I think this is getting a little nasty. I am not lecturing or mediating here, I just enjoy this hobby like a few others on this site. I personally like to read all above the above authors' opinions, maybe I don't agree all the time  but audio is a subjective experience.

Testosterone is a funny thing though...
 

and crap I wonder how many audio systems were wiped  out by Katrina??!!! Now that would suck

[-Richard-]

Hi Dan,

I for one always enjoy your far-reaching forays into what is possible
in audio...and I would sorely miss your presence here or anywhere
you choose to share your insights and observations of the direction
your thinking is taking as you continue to experiment with audio...

Whether you are considering amplifier design, speaker design, CD
players, or speakers...your realistic concerns for keeping
things cheap and accessible...your willingness to look at products that
everyone else initially passes by because these products sit outside our
conditioned responses of what we "normally" look for...your willingness to
experiment with circuitry and speaker building...and with component matching ...
Your speculative nature which has the uncanny ability to ferret out spectacular
possibilities that breed excitement and energy...your willingness to share with
all of us your findings and point those of us who are interested to the right sources...

As far as I am concerned you are an irreplaceable part of our audio community...
In many ways a visionary and innovator in your own right...

The good doctor has been working with patients who have suffered directly from
the flooding and mishaps that we as a nation have suffered through the excesses
of Katrina's fury...a most draining and demanding responsibility...in times of
emergency, a doctors life is radically different from most of ours...they see things
we only hear about on the news...and they are our witnesses to human suffering
on every level...so we can certainly sympathize and empathize with DMason and
all the other doctors who are now helping to heal and manage that suffering...

Let's step back a bit shall we...it is impossible for me to fully understand why
audio is so strongly attached to our emotional life the way it does...but it does...
and we as a community have to give each other a bit of space...and tolerate
each others eccentricities...

Let's face it...our involvement in audio is rather mad...completely unjustifiable on
any level that someone who is not as compelled as we are would find pathological...

Too bad for them! I have no interest in explaining the intensity of my involvement
in audio to anyone who is outside of its interior life...

But we cannot afford to toss each other around with impunity...too much is at stake
here...not the least of which is the integrity of our community...

Miklorsmith...It seems that DMason's comments about small tube SET amps
touched a sensitive cord with you...

DMason is moving into a new understanding of what may actually work for him
when tubes and tri-path digital paradigms unite to form a new sound...one that
is greater than the sum of its parts...something that moves the sound to another
level of musical transcendence and beauty of tone and wealth of harmonic riches...

In moving into this new area of what is possible, DMason is being very tentative...
he wants to understand what is going on and why the sound he is hearing works...

So he is looking at tube stuff and trying to see why octal tubes well implemented
are working so well with tri-path amps...and in looking at the whole tube picture he
is eliminating what he believes are tube strategies that do not effect the signal
in the same possible way that octal tubes may...and he is thinking that the scale
of the tube may be the deciding factor here...

DMason is thinking out loud...and that is what I wish everyone who wants to share
something with us should be able to do...if we are too reactive to everything anyone
says about the equipment we have invested our time and money and emotions
into we will be drilling our agitation into each other all the time...

Let's let DMason think out loud without cutting off his internal/public dialogue
just because he seems to be assailing audio strategies that work for us...

I appreciate and respect DMason too much to misunderstand his intentions...

He is a seeker after audio truth...like many of us...but unlike many of us he
shares his journey with us and asks us to join him in his adventure...there is
no arm twisting here...just an invitation...

DMason deserves our respect because he has proven to us the value of his
contributions here...Let's stop this conflict among ourselves and continue
to share what we are finding out about the art and science of audio...

DMason...I hope you will continue to contribute your insights with us...

Warm regards -Richard-

[GHM]

Yeah ...what Richard and Powerbench said. DITTO  

[miklorsmith]

Hey - me too.  As I'm sure most of you are aware, I'm no trouble-maker.  In fact, I've shared many good exchanges, publicly and privately with the Good Doctor.  I push no ill will toward him or any positive exchange here.  It is surely true that he is one of the largest contributors of original information here and that function is incredibly valuable.  Heck - the Aperiodic 8 from Omega is an actual, tangible product with direct lineage.  Kudos!

The only reason I said anything is the same reason most of us object to statements written on the boards - opinion cast as fact with criticism toward the other side tends to have self-inflationary importance.  That is, what is truly stated as opinion comes across as more.  Other readers will recognize Dmason's profile here and accord it significant weight.  When that weight swings a big hammer, it has an effect.

I certainly don't want Dmason to go anywhere.  His (your) boundless energy is irreplaceable.  But, I also don't want to have to pussyfoot around fearing reprisals for civil disagreement.  I spend time here because the discourse is more intelligent and willing to accept possibilities.  Don't go, Doc!

[lonewolfny42]

TCG :

Basically, I'm looking for a tanden that will drive the MMG's right smartly, with engaging bass, midrange and treble....much as I enjoyed with the JVC ES1sl and Vandy 1c's a while back. WolfyChris, I think that was the JVC that you tested long ago, right?

[/list:u]

Yes John...and I still have the ES1. Ran hot, tried to sell it...buyer sent it back...so now it's back in its box. Maybe I should send it to Vinnie....as an experiment. [/list:u]

[TheChairGuy]

Wolfy Chris,

Maybe Vinnie could do a little magic on it as he seemed to find something to work with and improve in the cramped confines of the iPod Mini...but I know it's tight inside.

[srayle]

Damn!...this was one of the most interesting threads in a looong time here on the Cabernet Rouge, whoops, Red Wine thread in the mostly dull n' dry Audiocircle.com site these days, when it did a sudden nosedive into the ground a couple of weekends ago, then...ab-so-lute-ly nuthin. I mean, come on, the prospect of these curious octal-based 6SN7 pre-amps lushly nudging our treasured Vinnie-tweaked digital creations in the direction of tube-fleshed sound, for those restless souls among us who just can't sit still...I know I want to explore more in that direction with my trusty R.W. Teac. O.K., so Doc Mason gave us a few phat hints before disappearing mysteriously back into the open-baffled digi-tubal mists...I mean, Are We Not Men? (well most of us)...can we not take the hints left to us by the Master and make the most of them, so that when he does re-appear (and he will, being a good guru, we just don't know when). Will we be bad disciples and have nothing to report? Or will we please him (but don't expect approval, 'tis not the Way) and be able to tell him how far we have come on the Path?

Anybody planning on getting one of them octal pre-amp/headphone amp things he so temptingly mentioned to us before he disappeared and try it out with their Teac?

O.K., I, for one, am seriously considering either the mapletree or the singlepower...I'm doing the research now...will I get the tap on the third-eye from the guru for being first, or has someone else already beat me to it???

[-Richard-]

Hi Steven,

Love your writing ...something like the inside of a Nautilus's Chamber...
spiraling effortlessly within the golden mean...

It seems the 6ns7 tubes are used in many applications...as part of
SET tube amplifiers...such as the El Ray 300B circuit topology...
in preamps as DMason has pointed out...and in concert with many
other tube amp applications as well...

Srajan refers to them in one review as "the mother of tone"...

I am still investigating into the entire question of synergy with Vinnie's
magical digital offerings...

Meanwhile I am awaiting, with edge-of-my-seat expectation, a RealiT
with the Monica dact from Monsieur Vincent...to bring that ethereal
refinement and mystical quality of musical magic and delight into my home...
and into my life...and I too will be able to see, after burn-in, if a tube preamplifier
can flesh out the stands of magic that are already present in that alchemists
transmutational chrysalis...the RealiT of course...

And you are right, Steven, DMason has once again asked us to experiment
with the possibilities of finding the musical elixir of life through an understanding
of synergy...this time with the cross-pollination of Red Wine tri-path and 6ns7
tubes...what will come of it is up to us to find out...

Oh...if only my audio budget was fashioned in deep waters instead of the
shallow eddies I find myself within...next life perhaps?

Warm regards -Richard-

[srayle]

Aye, thanks Richard,

You've raised several questions for me...

How does the inclusion of a 6NS7 influence the sound
in a pre-amplifier or amplifier? I have seen other pre-amps
that have these, as well as other tubes, such as rectifiers.I wish I knew more about amplifier design to understand how
and where these tubes perform their magic. Does the inclusion of 2 x 6NS7 in a pre-amp automatically influence the sound, or does the actual way they are included more critical?

I'm pleased to hear that a Red Wine libation is making its way into your home, but I'm unclear: just what is a RealiT? I looked at Vinnie's site and didn't see any product or mod for RealiT...did I miss something, or is this a unique product?

[-Richard-]

Hi Steven,

After carefully explaining my audio needs to Vinnie, he outlined a strategy
for an ensemble of parts, components and functions that would give me the
maximum of flexibility...this flexibility could include all of the functions he is
building into my modified ClariT as an organic fully integrated whole...
a self-contained unit...or allow me to use particular aspects of the
individual components with stand-alone integrity...

Vinnie is accomplishing this by designing various functions to allow me to
bypass particular components in different combinations...

So that, for example, the built-in Monica dact can be used with the modified
ClariT, or bypassed in favor of an alternative dact...another example is the
potential to use a tube preamplifier in the future if that is something that
I want to experiment with...also several sets of input and output jacks to allow
for more than one source and to drive a subwoofer in the future if that is another
option I wish to explore...and a longer battery life...

All of these options Vinnie offers as a normal part of his upgrade path with the
ClariT and anyone can order these options if they wish to have this level of
flexibility...

Vinnie has characterized this particular ensemble of components and options
as the RealiT...and I am merely using Vinnie's nomenclature here as he imparted
it to me...

It is my understanding that every tube has certain characteristics that it imparts
to the sound no matter how it is used in the amplifiers design...these tonal
characteristics can be mitigated by circuitry and the combination of other
tubes in the all-over ensemble of the design...but it can never be entirely eliminated...

Really good amp designers build their designs specifically around the tubes or
transistors or digital chips they are using to process the sound...certainly that
is one of the secrets behind Vinnie's overwhelming success with the ClariT
in all of its iterations...Vinnie selects his parts, circuits and battery power in
order to allow the tri-path chips to perform with the greatest purity and control
and at the same time with the least obstacles to its potential realization of the
magic inherent in its intrinsic design...

Apparently the 6ns7's are known for their tonal fullness...however how the
designer integrates those tubes into the all-over circuit design will be a critical
part of the amps success...but if the designer understands the potential for
that tube to deliver the "goods"...its potential fullness of tone for example...
then what one hears in the implementation of the amp should be some aspect
of the uniqueness of that tubes contribution to the quality of the sound...

So for many SET afficionados, the 2A3, the 300B and the 45 triode tubes should
have their unique characteristics fully revealed in the SET amps that utilize them
to process the signal...they should not sound similar...as in homogenous...
but rather unique to their potential contribution to the quality of the sound...

Vinnie's philosophy, as far as I understand it, would be a very different direction...
Vinnie seems to feel that what he wants his amplifiers to do is to reproduce the
musical event in as pure and uncolored and rich and detailed and resolved a
sound as the tri-path chips have the potential to deliver to the signal...in other
words Vinnie is looking for a sound that is not being tampered with or "redirected"
by the inherent colorations that tubes impart as a natural consequence of how
they are designed...

Vinnie wants the positive things that transistors and tubes can impart to the signal...
depth, focus, resolution, timbrel richness, a wide gamut of frequency extension,
superb inner resolution and detail and all the rest of it...but he does not want the
signal to be "shaped" in the way that tubes do...he does not want any distortion to
be served up with the music as part of its "sound"...

That level of purity and inner resolution is what makes Red Wine Audio's amps
so unique and tremendously effective...the modified ClariT delivers the goods...
Vinnie understands how to allow the tri-path chips to process the signal with
the least distortion capable of being designed into the circuitry...he does several
really important things...not the least of which is using battery power to obtain
a very strong and pure energy source and he connects that energy source
as directly as possible to the tri-path chips...bypassing all of the clutter that
other less elegant designers put in the path of the signal which only mucks it up...

However, we music lovers that experiment with different amp and speaker
designs have a restless spirit for adventure and experimentation...we like to
see what happens when we try different combinations of things...we are looking
for a certain magic that is not always aligned with any particular audio designers
intentions...

Thus DMason is looking for a synergy with the modified ClariT that he feels can
release some "hidden" potential for musical bliss with high efficiency speakers...
and he feels he heard just such a unique sound with the ClariT and an iteration
of the 6ns7 tube preamplifier...

Our work as experimenters will probably never end...because it is our nature...

Why fight it?...I for one say let's find out...let's keep experimenting...

Meanwhile Vinnie is trying to give us the "ground" for as pure a musical
signal as can be achieved today...we can use his incredible and intoxicating
amplifiers exactly as he designed them, or we can experiment with the ClariT
with tube preamplifiers to see what synergy is possible in combinations...
and for that I say Bravo Vinnie, for your exquisite accomplishment!!!!

May Red Wine Audio live forever...

The best of luck to you at your Denver showing...we are all grateful for your
unceasing energy, creative innovations and wonderful help, friendship and service...

Warm regards -Richard-

[JLM]

Another promising 6NS7 based pre-amp is the Audio Electronics Supply AE-3 ($600).  They also have a premium version at twice the price and a kit version at $400.  These are designed by Cary.

Wright Audio also has a 6NS7 pre-amp for $900.

But...

In a SB2 based system all that's really needed is a tube buffer to get the tube favoring (no switching, gain, or volume control needed).  Anyone know of a 6NS7 buffer?

[JiffyBoob]

I have heard in my home, the modified Clari-T with a Singlepower 6sn7 pre amp through my amazing, custom made Dark Star speakers, built for me this summer by the aforementioned "guru," and I know what this is about. Not about tube flavoring or thermionic distortion but about alchemy, about Loaves-and-Fishes style multiplication, about anti-Mendelian concepts of spontaneous generation, it is just one of those things folks, Industrial Light & Magic. I will very likely soon trade in my high dollar trophy SET amp for some form of Clarit along the lines of Richard's, and part of the proceeds will certainly and ABSOLUTELY be going toward an Octal 6sn7 tube based pre amplifier, possibly having one built by Albert LTS of Vancouver, to answer the question on buffers, you can find a museum of custom made pre amplifiers and buffers here.

www.space-tech-lab.com

I have read some of the reviews on Audio Asylum and I am convinced.

[JLM]

Good leads JiffyBoob, but still no 6NS7 buffers.  With the Vinnied SB2 I wouldn't want even a volume pot.

Would a unity gain tube buffer need much power?  Could this be another application of battery power and keep off the grid?

[ryno]

JLM
According to the bottlehead site, the foreplay can be converted to 6NS7 tubes. You could build with no volume, no switching.
Ry

[JLM]

O.K. not 6NS7 based, but here's a couple of tube buffers (both $400):


Music Fidelity X 10v3, uses a pair of 6112 (mu-vista) military spec tubes and 24 VAC, 500 mA wall wart.  Reviews don't indicate tons of tube warmth.  Designed to be powered continously, tube rated for 100,000 hours.

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AMUFIX10V3


Decware Z-box, uses a 12AX7, includes volume pot, and plugs directly into the wall.  User reviews include much concern over hum and has mainly been used with lower grade CD players.

http://decware.com/newsite/mainmenu.htm


Although I've hung out a lot on the Decware forum, the Z-box seems to have it's issues while not stated to add much to a high end system.  Decware has never been about tube warmth.  Smaller tubes seem to have less warmth and the 12AX7 fits the pattern.

[JiffyBoob]

Albert can build Octal buffers, zero gain pre amps. The 6922 tube can be subbed with 6sn7, and he builds them all day long.

Forget about miniature tubes, for a buffer with this stuff. Full size tubes = Full size tube sound.

For me, I am thinking that life is short so go with the deHavilland Verve. Mothership of Tone. The Singlepower wired over for active linestage was superb.

[-Richard-]

Hi Jiffyboob,

I assume you are doing your homework...you sound like you are being very
careful and searching things out...

However here is a review of the deHavilland just in case you have not come
upon it yet...

http://show.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fdm.pl?univ&1089235716&item&Dehavilland&&&&

Note that the reviewer, John Grossett, was using a Magnapan MG 1.6 QR...a
speaker I had for a few years and know something about...

He seems to feel that the bottom end of the deHavilland overpowers the top end
a bit...his wording is somewhat guarded here...he must know that synergy of the
components being used is always beneficial or not depending on how things
work together...

And the Maggies will not show the same characteristics as the B200 based Dark
Stars that you own and love...I assume your Dark Stars are much more revealing
and infinitely more sensitive than the Maggies...

Still, the review suggests that a trial with your modified ClariT (you said that you were
interested in going that route) would be helpful here to get a good insight into how
these two components behave together...

May I ask you why you are not considering the SinglePower since you had such
a wonderful experience with it?

I am sincerely trying to understand how to proceed myself here...

Warm regards -Richard-

[JiffyBoob]

I would prefer a dedicated pre amplifier, with inputs etc. The Singlepower is intended as a headphone amp, at which it excels. Everything is designed around the 6sn7 tube. In fact the Singlepower with a good set of headphones would likely be so far beyond anything available in two channel audio lala land that it would be game over. I just cannot get into headphones or I would gladly go that route, such is the aural feast imparted by the PPX with 6sn7.

I am proceeding carefully. I haven't yet even decided when to get rid of my beloved Art Audio amp. More like a pet shrine to music, that one is. However I have heard the Clarit with the Dark Stars and it was magnificent, in my home, on my stuff. The B200 is a keeper, a static part of my listening from now on, but replacement co$t on PX25 output tubes is a killer, which the aforementioned guru kindly pointed out before he allowed me to buy it from him in the first place. I like the idea of clean battery power from now on.

[JLM]

JiffyBoob,

Not willing to go the headphone route (will have my dream speakers in a dedicated room soon).  Have done headphones (college dorms) and put up with weird imaging.  If your music was recorded for headphone playback and a butt shaker/sub was added, you'd have a near ideal setup on the very cheap.

Life isn't quite so short for me I guess, as the deHavilland prices don't fit into my system budget ($2k for an optional, abet by all reports very good, upgrade that puts me back on the grid).

Looks like about $700 for a Space-Tech QA-112 pre-amp based buffer with 6NS7 tubes.  Will also look into Singlepower for a factory built buffer when life settles down a bit.  Still a bit pricey for a good polish as a Vinnie modded SB2 or Teac AL700P/Clari-T (essential components) cost roughly the same and they get me off the grid, but I'll stop squeaking cheap.

[miklorsmith]

Anybody in Seattle have a 6sn7-based pre they'd like to hear on a Clari-T/Definition rig.  Def's are done painting, assembly finishes today, and they'll be burning in over the w/e.  Delivery next week.  I'm g-g-g-giddy.

So, anyone?  I'd really like to side-by-side such a beast with my Modwright.  I truly have no plans to get rid of the Modwright, but more knowledge is good and it would be fun to try something else.

For that matter, anybody with a good SET amp they'd like to compare with the Clari-T?  I'm intrigued, but I'd like to get a clue before ponying up any dough.