[DSK]

Greetings fellow AC'ers!

Let me start out by declaring that I am no speaker/xo designer. I have never attempted to design one and have read enough to know that it is best left to the professionals like Dennis Murphy, Rick Craig et al.    Thus some of my comments below may be generalisations that may or may not be accurate for all speakers. I'm always happy to learn from those with real knowledge and experience.

I have been searching for an affordable 3-way speaker with genuine claims of very high-end sound. Recently, feedback on the Salk HT3 suggests that it is one of the best candidates around. However, living in Australia I cannot audition the HT3 (or much else) so I am left with reading and carefully sifting any and all feedback I can find on the various audio forums. Also, the HT3 is not available as a kit and not affordable (for me anyway) shipped to Australia. It is also a ported design, while I would prefer a sealed design to better integrate with my low-Q sealed subwoofer. So, I seek an alternative (for a 24' x 19' x 9' room) for my 2-channel music-only system.

My main criteria is as follows (in no particular order):

3-way design (lower distortion & compression, higher power handling, better tonality, better dispersion)
Sealed F3 of 60hz or lower (ie. so I can set the sub's variable xo as low as possible)
Excellent integration of drivers (dispersion, 'sound', wide overlap, well balanced/coherent sound)
Highly transparent drivers (probably rigid: SEAS magnesiums or Accuton ceramics)
Excellent tonality, body, weight, dynamics (NOT 'lean')
Excellent PRAT & reach-out-and-touch-the-performers quality
Excellent imaging and soundstaging
Sensitivity of 86db or higher & minimum impedance of 3.7R or higher

Yes, I want it all of course .  Speaker building is not a hobby for me so I want to do this once and enjoy the results for years... as I have done with my sub.

Recently, I came across the Peridot from Selah Audio (http://www.selahaudio.com/id96.html). It is available in a sealed version with F3 around 50-55hz, satisfies my sensitivity and impedance requirements, and is available as an affordable kit.

Now for my assumptions/generalisations ...

The smaller W15 mid driver will offer a better dispersion match and a higher xo point with the tweeter, than the W18 in the HT3 or W22 in the Orion, while having the same 'sound' (all SEAS magnesiums). Potentially, this means a smoother/wider off-axis response, better integration with the tweeter and less strain on the tweeter (lower distortion, higher power handling). It also removes the xo from the sensitive 300-3khz region (I am guesssing the xo's are at about 300-350hz & 3khz). The breakup mode of the W15 is also much higher than on the W18 or W22.

The Peridot uses two SEAS L22 8" rigid aluminium woofers. Though perhaps not quite as detailed as the W22, or having the xmax of the TC Sounds 10" woofer, two L22's should provide excellent detail & dynamics and move almost as much air as a 12" woofer. Sealing the Peridot will sacrifice some extension (F3 ~50-55hz sealed vs 38hz ported), but this isn't important as I am crossing to a sealed sub. In addition, sealed bass often sounds more dynamic with better tonality and transient response than ported designs. I have not heard the L22's or W22's and don't know how similar they sound (anyone ?).

Obviously, listening to these designs (which I can't do here) is the only way to know for sure whether these assumptions are borne out in reality. I  heartily welcome any feedback from anyone who has heard both, but this is unlikely as the Peridot is newly released. I also welcome feedback/corrections by advanced speaker/xo designers but would prefer not to see any 'emotional/defensive' posts from HT3 or Orion owners ....I am not trying to criticise these speakers in any way, they are universally acclaimed and are indeed the benchmarks. I am just trying to determine (as I can't listen to them) whether it is a safe bet that the Peridot's performace will likely be in the same league as the HT3 and Orion, or whether there are any other kit designs around that better meet my stated criteria. For some reason, there seems to be very few sealed 3-way designs (kit or manufactured) around

Thanks guys!

[Marbles]

Rick does a great job with his speakers and you can't go wrong IMO.

On the other hand, I'm told that WAR audio makes some VERY good speakers in your part of the world.

Have you heard any of the WAR's?  

What are your thoughts on them?

[DSK]

Rick does a great job with his speakers and you can't go wrong IMO.

On the other hand, I'm told that WAR audio makes some VERY good speakers in your part of the world.

Have you heard any of the WAR's?  

What are your thoughts on them?

Thanks Marbles. Unfortunately WAR is on the other side of Australia, though I'd love to get there one day. Their designs look very good but their 3-ways are too expensive for me. I'm hoping to achieve similar performance more cheaply, by building them myself but going with a high-end kit designed by a true expert, like Rick.

[Rick Craig]

Rick does a great job with his speakers and you can't go wrong IMO.

On the other hand, I'm told that WAR audio makes some VERY good speakers in your part of the world.

Have you heard any of the WAR's?  

What are your thoughts on them?

Thanks Marbles. Unfortunately WAR is on the other side of Australia, though I'd love to get there one day. Their designs look very good but their 3-ways are too expensive for me. I'm hoping to achieve similar performance more cheaply, by building them myself but going with a high-end kit designed by a true expert, like Rick.

I've been asked  to put together a 10" 3-way kit since the HT3 isn't available as a kit. Depending on what drivers and crossover parts you choose you can expect to spend about $1,200 (premium crossover parts) or less for a pair. This includes everything except the cabinets.

[DSK]

I've been asked  to put together a 10" 3-way kit since the HT3 isn't available as a kit. Depending on what drivers and crossover parts you choose you can expect to spend about $1,200 (premium crossover parts) or less for a pair. This includes everything except the cabinets.

         WooHoo! I'm excited!        

Rick, any idea when you will be able to release details ...

Eg.  what woofer will you use & will it be front or side mounted?
      will you use the same Fountek ribbon & SEAS W15 mid?
      I guess the bass will be more extended, but will the quality be better than 2 x SEAS L22's or W22's?

[Rick Craig]

       WooHoo! I'm excited!        

Rick, any idea when you will be able to release details ...

Eg.  what woofer will you use & will it be front or side mounted?
      will you use the same Fountek ribbon & SEAS W15 mid?
      I guess the bass will be more extended, but will the quality be better than 2 x SEAS L22's or W22's?

The quoted price would be with a slightly different TC Sounds woofer but the same Seas and Aurum Cantus drivers. There are also some possible variations that would increase the cost, such as Scan-Speak or Aurasound metal cone woofers and the Accuton midbass drivers (5"-7").

 Of course the W15 is a possibility as well as the Fountek ribbon. For about $1,450 you could put together a Scan-Speak 10" /Seas W15 / Fountek CD3.0  that would rock in a sealed box  

[Al Garay]

This Rick Craig 3-way sounds like your best bet.

[DSK]

The quoted price would be with a slightly different TC Sounds woofer but the same Seas and Aurum Cantus drivers. There are also some possible variations that would increase the cost, such as Scan-Speak or Aurasound metal cone woofers and the Accuton midbass drivers (5"-7").

 Of course the W15 is a possibility as well as the Fountek ribbon. For about $1,450 you could put together a Scan-Speak 10" /Seas W15 / Fountek CD3.0  that would rock in a sealed box  

Awesome, Thanks Rick. As you decide which combination(s) you will develop, could you perhaps open a new thread in the Selah Audio Circle to keep the punters informed? Maybe you could even use it to see how much interest there is in each potential combination.

Meanwhile, I'm off to see what's in the piggy bank  

[Rick Craig]

Awesome, Thanks Rick. As you decide which combination(s) you will develop, could you perhaps open a new thread in the Selah Audio Circle to keep the punters informed? Maybe you could even use it to see how much interest there is in each potential combination.

Meanwhile, I'm off to see what's in the piggy bank  

At this point nothing has been decided except that I would rather not clone the HT3 with a TC/Seas/Aurum Cantus combination. I put that out there so a comparsion could be made in terms of cost.

In your situation you have more flexibility because you're going to be using a subwoofer. Some of the drivers won't allow the system to meet your 86db spec so that eliminates the Scan-Speak 23W4557T and the TC woofers. Your best choice IMO is two sealed Seas W22's per side with either the Seas W15 or Accuton midbass plus a Fountek ribbon tweeter.

Whether the Accuton is worth the extra $ I cannot really say; however, Dave Ellis recently posted that he liked the larger Accuton more than the Seas W18. I have used the Accuton C79 and it was an excellent driver.

Feel free to start a thread in my circle since it would be better to continue this discussion there.

[Al Garay]

Looks like your RC4 model may fit his needs.

But if he wants something new and high efficiency, how about Eton 11" 11-581 woofer (91db) that is used in Avalon Acoustics Eidolon. It will cost a bit less than 2 Seas W22s and should give F3 down in mid 20s with a ported woofer enclosure.

Then have a sealed enclosure for mid and tweeter using Accuton C79 (89db) or the much more expensive C90T6 (93db).

For tweeter, consider one of the new Seas Excel T29CF-001 ribbon (93db). That could be a killer combination for high-efficiency 3-way that is not like everyone elses and covers the full range without requiring a side firing 12" active woofer.

[warnerwh]

We are very fortunate here in the U.S. to have a super assortment of equipment to choose from. You came to the right place to get help. I was in Australia years ago the prices for our gear after your import tax or whatever was breathtaking!  Anyway having Rick Craig design your speakers and just send drivers and crossovers and let you do the cabinets is a very smart idea.  Hope this works out well for you.

Also the hospitality by the people in Australia was no less than truly outstanding, I've many good memories of Perth. It was almost like being home only on the other side of the planet.

[DSK]

Looks like your RC4 model may fit his needs.

But if he wants something new and high efficiency, how about Eton 11" 11-581 woofer (91db) that is used in Avalon Acoustics Eidolon. It will cost a bit less than 2 Seas W22s and should give F3 down in mid 20s with a ported woofer enclosure.

Then have a sealed enclosure for mid and tweeter using Accuton C79 (89db) or the much more expensive C90T6 (93db).

For tweeter, consider one of the new Seas Excel T29CF-001 ribbon (93db). That could be a killer combin ...

Hi Al, I'm not after a 'high efficiency' speaker (ie. >93db), I just don't want to drop below 86db and risk losing dynamics or buying a bigger amp. I would prefer a sealed speaker rather than ported so it blends better with sub and I end up with full range rather than 'almost full range'. However a design with an F3 in the 20's would bear consideration.