Footfalls and Breaking Bottles

John Casler · « **on:** 3 Sep 2005, 08:46 pm »

I recently subscribed to Stereophile (hey $10 a year it might be worth it

) and they sent me both the August and July issues at the same time.

So I'm reading the review of the $16K Burmeister 011 preamp.

The reviewer mentions that he used one of my "reference cuts", Dire Strait's "Private Investigations" during the review to "double check" the 011's ability to "recreate" images.

This account can be found on page 109, column 3, paragraph 3, if you have the mag.

He states that he used this cut to listen for "foot-falls and a breaking bottle"
??????????????????????????

I've heard the foot-falls thousands of times, but "NEVER" heard a BREAKING BOTTLE.

Am I deaf?

Is there more than one version of this cut?

Could he have confused the "cocking gun" noise with the breaking of a bottle???

Anyone hear a breaking bottle on this cut?

mgalusha · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 09:18 pm »

John,

The footfalls are at about 3:42 and the glass breaking is at 5:37, about 5 seconds before the gun cocking.

As for versions, I don't know. I've had my CD for a long time. The bottle breaking is pretty clear, I can hear it on the Bose speakers attached to my PC. Maybe the version you have is different. 'Course we could upgrade your RM-30's to some Bose computer speakers. <just kidding of course>

Mike

PhilNYC · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 09:20 pm »

There's a faint breaking bottle sound in the left channel at around the 4:50 mark in the track. Actually, less of a breaking bottle and more of a bottle skidding across the pavement....

mgalusha · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 09:23 pm »

Hmm. After reading Phil's post I wonder if there is a different version. Phil, what is the length of Private Investigation's on your copy? Mine is 6:36.

Mike

PhilNYC · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 09:25 pm »

Actually, I just checked that too...on Love over Gold, Mike is right on the timing. On the Money For Nothing (Greatest Hits) version, the footsteps are at 3:00 and the bottle is at 4:50

mgalusha · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 09:29 pm »

So the greatest hits version isn't the same. Nice. Not the first time I've seen a compilation album use edited versions of the songs.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 09:47 pm »

All they do on the greatest hits is to cut out some of the ambient stuff at the beginning of the track...

John Casler · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 09:57 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha

John,

The footfalls are at about 3:42 and the glass breaking is at 5:37, about 5 seconds before the gun cocking.

As for versions, I don't know. I've had my CD for a long time. The bottle breaking is pretty clear, I can hear it on the Bose speakers attached to my PC. Maybe the version you have is different. 'Course we could upgrade your RM-30's to some Bose computer speakers. <just kidding of course>

Mike

Yeah I need those Bose

Well I certainly have heard the "sound" at 4:50, but I guess I never played it loud enough for these old ears to hear the "tinkle".

It always sounded like they were just putting the gun up to the mike in preparation for the "cocking noise".

I guess I'll have to turn up the volume a bit more

Wayne1 · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 10:08 pm »

Actually if you have a really good pair of speakers you can hear the bottle falling, hit the ground and break

I started using this as a reference when it was first released. The Acoustat 2+2's did about the best job of recreating the image of the bottle falling. The RM-40s don't do a bad job, either.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 10:16 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1

Actually if you have a really good pair of speakers you can hear the bottle falling, hit the ground and break
.

I will admit to not being able to hear the bottle falling...

SWG255 · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 10:17 pm »

John, there's another possibility too. The Dire Straits CDs were re-mastered by Warner Brothers a couple years ago, perhaps there are differences between the earlier CDs and the re-mastered versions. I plan to get the re-mastered CDs since yourmusic.com has them for $5.99. I just got the 20th anniversary "Brothers in Arms" SACd, and the re-mastering job on that is superior to the original 1985 CD I have in my collection. The two-channel SACD layer sounds fabulous, and the redbook layer is also great.

A friend's vinyl copy of "Brothers in Arms" also sounds better than the original CD by a wide margin.

Comparing remasters, vinyl, SACD and DVD-audio versions of all this music can make one a bit dizzy, but at least for the Dire Straits music, things seem to be improving with the updated masters.

ScottMayo · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 10:40 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC

I will admit to not being able to hear the bottle falling...

You have to use *silver* interconnects and *iridium* speaker wire to hear the bottle falling.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 10:59 pm »

Perhaps I was so used to the vertical image of the tall planar electrostatic speaker that I am simply bringing that experience to all other speakers. I do hear a difference in height as the bottle falls and shatters.

On my copy it happens at 5:40 into the song, just after the "meow" from the guitar.

Now I could just be dreaming, but I do hear a small difference in height on my Monsoon computer speakers.

Must have been all the drugs in the 70s and 80s

ScottMayo · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 11:28 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC

There's a faint breaking bottle sound in the left channel at around the 4:50 mark in the track. Actually, less of a breaking bottle and more of a bottle skidding across the pavement....

On the VMPS reference disk's version (which I know J has) there's the guitar/cat wail at 4m46, and a cymbal whisk and the breaking glass right after it, at at 4m51. The bottle skittered and broke (left channel) and they did an amazing job of making it sound like a middle-distance event. When I listen, the chord crashes that follow are at about 82db at the listening position; ie., the volume needs to be cranked a bit.

There's also a soft indrawn breath, repeating alongside the percussion, starting at about 3m46 or so and just offbeat with the bass. It's quiet. If you can make that out you'll have little problem picking out the glass.

I've noticed that the detail on the glass isn't quite as clear when I have the Bryston preamp in digital input mode. In the bypass mode it's clear and sharp, pun intended. This might be something that's worth swapping different preamps and amps in for.

I used this track (actually the album version) when I first auditioned the RM/x. The fact that it handled it so very clearly was a part of my buying decision.