Has anybody tried the Isolator; is it ethical to try DIY?

woodsyi · « **on:** 23 Aug 2005, 02:07 pm »

Isolator:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtnrm&1129551007
I am curious if this works and if any body tried a similar product.

Jimvette · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 01:58 am »

I am using the Isolator between a Grado Sonata and a Hadcock 242. It makes a significant improvement.

TomS · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 02:47 am »

I am using it on a VPI Scoutmaster/JMW9 Signature with ZYX Airy3-SB. Definite improvement and worth it.

woodsyi · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 03:50 am »

What kind of improvement are you guys hearing?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 05:06 am »

Man, that Cartridge Man is raking it in. $150 for a slapdash of bitumen and a few other sheet gobs and $1000.00 for a modded Grado.

I know, they are both reportedly very beneficial products, but sheesh, talk about insane hi- end markup.

Hey, he's entitled to it if he can (and does) get it, but a BIG 'no thanks' to his products here

woodsyi · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 03:11 pm »

Yeah, it is a little much for a bit of foam and what not with screw holes. Isn't it? Why don't you do a little reverse engineering and see if you can come up with a DIY solution for $15?

I am just trying to figure out how to keep the azimuth steady.

TomS · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 03:31 pm »

Yes, that's correct. It is a somewhat cheezy little piece, that could easily be duplicated with a little effort, but it works.

There is some old adage about plumbers (and since adapted to others) about that $200 bill not being for hitting the pipe, but for knowing where to hit the pipe and precisely how hard.

Gordy · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 04:37 pm »

McMaster Carr http://www.mcmaster.com/ carries a huge assortment of Sorbothane (supersoft polyurethane) including adhesive backed sheets down to 40 on the 00-shore scale. They also carry these interesting "sample packs"...

Poron Quick Recovery Polyurethane Foam Sample Pack: Includes three 6" x 6" x 1/4" sheets, one of firmness rating 2, 4, and 8.

Super-Soft Polyurethane Sample Pack: Includes two 4" by 4" x 1/8" thick sheets, one of each durometer (20A and 30A).

Can't make a link to the catalog pages, sorry...

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 05:08 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

Yeah, it is a little much for a bit of foam and what not with screw holes. Isn't it? Why don't you do a little reverse engineering and see if you can come up with a DIY solution for $15? I am just trying to figure out how to keep the azimuth steady.

The 'Isolator' reportedly has a patent on it - I'm kinda' leery about replicating it. It's just a moral issue with me - we have several patents here at my company (many, one in particular hurtful, of my competitors have ripped us off).

Basically, it damps the headshell and cartridge body simultaneously - no mystery science to that one. I'm thinking a good not-too-fatty piece of Dynamat cut to the shape of your headshell with provisions for screws would probably do the job nicely

woodsyi · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 05:15 pm »

Tom S. was kind enough to dig this piece of information up on Stereo Times. Since it is a published information I would think it is alright to post here.

Quote

"The Isolator is a small rectangular sandwich (3/4 “ W x 1” D x 1/8”H) whose top and bottom are two thin stainless steel plates. Sandwiched between the plates is the exotic, purposed-designed, and very expensive isolating material. This material, technically a closed cell, cross-linked ethylene copolymer structure, is somewhat springy and can be damaged from excessive compression. The Isolator fits between the phono cartridge and the headshell, serving as an acoustic filter between the two. The cartridge side has a re-usable, and easily broken, contact adhesive on its stainless steel plate which bonds the cartridge to The Isolator; two protruding shafts slip into the cartridge’s mounting lugs to center and orient the cartridge. These two shafts do not have nuts; the cartridge is not bolted to The Isolator. From the top of The Isolator protrude two captive bolts that attach to the headshell by two nuts. These nuts are to be tightened just barely enough to keep the cartridge and The Isolator from shifting position."

ChairGuy, et al.

Let's come up with a DIY version. What can we use to emulate the function of the key item ?

Quote

the exotic, purposed-designed, and very expensive isolating material. This material, technically a closed cell, cross-linked ethylene copolymer structure

woodsyi · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 05:48 pm »

Is it ethically OK to emulate a patented design using readily available, non proprietary material for your own use? I am thinking this is perfectly fine as long as I am doing it for my personal use and not trying to make a profit by underselling the patent holder with a knock off. What is your perspective on the ethical issue of this sort of DIY project?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 06:44 pm »

Yeah, I hear ya'. It's just that I'm touchy on the subject - probably stupidly so.

The Cartridge Man uses two sheets of stainless steel - because they are non-magnetic (so as not to interfere with the disrupt cartridge magnets). Aluminum will achieve the same goal I bet (as in most constrained layer materials like Dynamat). The 'exotic' isolating material is pure marketing gibberish - butyl rubber also is squishy and achieves the same result.

I'd guess a $12 piece of Dynamat would perform similarly - and you could cut about 40 Isoators from the same piece.

Here's the blurb on Dynamat.....the other makes of constrained layer damoing materials don't differ much from this recipe:

Quote from: Dynamat

Constrained-layer damping (CLD) is the application of a “sandwich” construction material that consists of a visco-elastic material bonded with a relatively stiff constraining layer. When the system flexes during vibrational distortion sheer forces are created on the stiff constraining layer. Energy is dissipated through sheer deformation (tensional forces). For a given thickness of material, constrained layer damping will outperform extensional damping. This allows constrained layer damping material to be lighter and thinner in weight. By changing the composition in the visco-elastic material and constraining layer, it is possible to alter the effectiveness of the material over a frequency or thermal range. Typically, the stiffer the constraining layer, the more effective the material. However, stiffer constraining layer makes installation more difficult. Dynamat Xtreme is a butyl composite with aluminum constraining layer, sheet metal vibrational damper. Dynaplate is a aluminum constrained layer damping material with a visco-elastic damping adhesive.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 07:58 pm »

The problem, btw, of any type of acoustical sandwich decoupling cartridge from headshell would be it would knock the alignment off from many cartridge setups.

My AT440ml is a tall-ish body (guess those dual v-magnets take up more room than most inside) and I have non-adjustable VTA on my arm. To incorporate different cartridges I've had to employ several types of platter mats to get things in line.

If you don't have VTA flexibility, or have a tall cartridge, the Isolator will do more harm than good, likely.

I think performing the van Alstine Longhorn mod (either half-ass like me using maget wire non-soldered to the cartridge or full out correct like OHenry did) and potting a bit of plast-i-clay on the inside of your headshell, by the wires and towards the front will accomplish as much sonically for a whole lot less.

Your invetment is proably $10 this way and the rewards are many

TomS · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 08:09 pm »

I had to re-align anyway as well as raise the arm height which is part of the standard procedure. If your arm won't do that you're pretty much outta luck.

woodsyi · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 08:45 pm »

I checked mine last night and I had about 3/4" clearance left on my VTA room. I will see if I can rig something up.

TomS · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 08:46 pm »

That's more than enough

randytsuch · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 09:00 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

Is it ethically OK to emulate a patented design using readily available, non proprietary material for your own use? I am thinking this is perfectly fine as long as I am doing it for my personal use and not trying to make a profit by underselling the patent holder with a knock off. What is your perspective on the ethical issue of this sort of DIY project?

Slightly off topic, but I was thinking about starting a thread about the ethics of DIYer's copying audio companies and mod house designs for their own use. Have not got around to it yet.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

Randy

skrivis · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 09:43 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy

The 'Isolator' reportedly has a patent on it - I'm kinda' leery about replicating it. It's just a moral issue with me - we have several patents here at my company (many, one in particular hurtful, of my competitors have ripped us off).

Basically, it damps the headshell and cartridge body simultaneously - no mystery science to that one. I'm thinking a good not-too-fatty piece of Dynamat cut to the shape of your headshell with provisions for screws would probably do the job nicely

Why not make a small filet of plasticlay at the juncture of cartridge and headshell.

I put a blob of clay on top of my headshell years ago and it seemed to work ok.

As for patents, it's ethical to make something for yourself, especially if you wouldn't have bought the product anyway.

So would it be unethical of me to lash a lawn chair to a backpack? No, it would only be unethical and in violation of a patent if I were to produce them and sell them.

skrivis · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 09:46 pm »

Quote from: randytsuch

Quote from: woodsyi
Is it ethically OK to emulate a patented design using readily available, non proprietary material for your own use? I am thinking this is perfectly fine as long as I am doing it for my personal use and not trying to make a profit by underselling the patent holder with a knock off. What is your perspective on the ethical issue of this sort of DIY project?

Slightly off topic, but I was thinking about starting a thread about the ethics of DIYer's copying audio companies and mod ho ...

I do some of my own plumbing, electrical work, gardening, landscaping, painting, repairing my car... All of these are things that, by doing them, I'm taking money away from a professional.

Is it unethical to change your own oil?

nathanm · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Feb 2006, 09:51 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

Is it ethically OK to emulate a patented design using readily available, non proprietary material for your own use? I am thinking this is perfectly fine as long as I am doing it for my personal use and not trying to make a profit by underselling the patent holder with a knock off. What is your perspective on the ethical issue of this sort of DIY project?

100% ethical for sure. If you launched a deliberate knockoff campaign to sell your version it might be ethically questionable and certainly would be open for debate. But as long as you're putting all the work into making something for yourself using another person's idea I don't see the harm. If some bloke in his garage can make a reasonable facsimilie of a commerical product created by teams of people and millions of dollars I'd say it's not only ethical but quite admirable. Still, if you're THAT good it might be more satisfying to design your own thing.