Superphon Revelation III

JCC · « **on:** 16 Aug 2005, 02:02 am »

On Sunday 8/14 a small group of AC members met at my house to evaluate the new Superphon Revelation III, developed by Stan Warren.

The preamp that we compared to was a modified Sony TA-P9000ES. The Sony was Stereophile Class rated in it’s stock form, but this one had been modified by Stan Warren.

Anyway, the new Superphon was noticeable clearer, and in fact provided a lot more information than the Sony.

But enough from me. This thread has been posted to allow the other attendees to provide their impressions.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 03:42 am »

JCC,

What's this Superphon Revelation version selling for and does it have Phono?

I have the original dual mono circa 1987 (with pain in the keester dual volume controls) to which Stan added 10-12 Blackgates in 2002 and it's been a killer for years - with and without the 'Gates.

Phono has hum on left side now, tho...never got it fixed as I ditched my TT setup a couple years ago.

TCG

Randy · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 04:02 am »

I also have an original Superphon Revelation preamp with the two volume controls. Still works, but haven't used it in years. Also have a Superphon amp. This amp was pretty good, then the company offered a tweak for which I sent the amp back to the company. The modification was said to give it a more "tube-like" sound. When I got it back, the only difference I could discern was that all the bass had been sucked out of it. Like the preamp, I still have the amp although one channel is dead.

I also bought what must have been a Superphon Revelation preamp II, a fancified version of the first preamp. I don't remember much about it. May it had a one-knob volume control. At the time, Sterelphile was giving these products rave reviews. I was disappointed in the new preamp. Didn't think it sounded nearly as good as the original. I think I went to a Mod Squad Line drive after selling the second Superphon preamp.

Panelhead · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 10:21 am »

I was lucky enough to attend the small gathering at Jesse's. His overall system is well balanced and delivers explosive dynamic swings. The system was a unknown to me, preamp, amp, speakers, and a RAM modified Pioneer 563.
I brought along three diy amps to see how the Superphon handled pairing with different partners. All three have differing topologies, sensitivities, and imput impdeances.
First was a dual mono digital amp using the boards from two SI 5066. The preamp drove the 10K input impedance well. The overall sonic color of the 5066 came through in spades. This did not match well, the imaging lost focus, and a sterile texture was imposed ovr the upper mids. This to my ears is the house sound of the 5066 amps. Think it is the ceramic coupling caps used on the surface mount boards.
Next was a Hirega Le Monstre. This 8 watt class A amp has a 27K input impdeance. The sound was much improved. The most striking sonic artifact was note decay. A cut was listenied to that featured solo vibraphone. The length of each note was longer than Jesse's Carver, and the Ernes-T. This amp has a soft, warm texture and balance. The Superphon imposed no sound of its own and let the sound of the amp through. This partnering has a little overipe, fat lower bass. It was a little too much, not taunt like the Carver.
Last amp run was a new one. Only finished the night before, it is an opamp based unit, with a LM3886 current source. It is less colored than the other two amps. It also has a 100K input impedance. Here the overall sonic picture seemed close to perfect. The imaging, frequency response, and dynamics were first rate.
Later we tried Jesse's Sony preamp. This highly rated unit had been run through a modifier and delivered fine sound. It was tried with my last amp and the big Carver. There was a muffling of sound. A lot of fine details did not come through this unit. I could not live with it after hearing the Superphon under the same conditions.
Overall I was much impressed with this new Superphon. It is a big, heavy solid unit. The sonics are exceptional. could not find a single flaw in it.
I too am a former Rev II G owner. It was nice, but flimsy, cheaply made by comparison. Also it always exhibited a low level grunge that could be heard with your ear next to the tweeters. This new unit is dead silent, even with the stepped volume pot cranked up. This low noise level is highly important to me. The differances between components is sometimes the ability to resolve very low level information. A low noise floor is needed to hear these.
Most of the preamps I have used over the last seventeen years have been tubed. The last two in my system are solid state. To my ears the tube units are euphonic, adding a texture, sound of their own. This only took fifteen years to figure out. Slow learner.
I am not the best type to audition a new product of this quality. I build my own nowdays. But if I was going to purchase a linestage today a call to Superphon would be made. This is a perfect unit, colorless, and seems to be able to drive any amplifier.
If anyone liked the sound of the old Superphon units, try to hear this new one. It is in another league. Just as they were 700.00 preamps that matched the 2000.00 competition, the new one is a 2000.00 preamp that is the equal of todays 7500.00 units.
Stan Warren is doing it again.

George

JCC · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 04:32 pm »

I was really impressed with the new Amp that George developed and used for demonstration. It was brand new and not broken in, but was first rate. I thought it was the equal of my modified Carver, and hate to think what will happen after it breaks in.

I will be looking for opportunity to compare the Superphon to other preamps in the near future. This is a prototype model, and I know that further improvements are coming. Even at it's current state the Superphone Revelation III is the best that I have heard.

We need some additional shootouts.

JCC · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 04:38 pm »

Quote

What's this Superphon Revelation version selling for and does it have Phono?

This is a prototype version and additional upgrades are coming:

...Phono Preamp
...HT Bypass
...Possibly a Remote

Reportedly the retail price will be $2300

gstraley · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Sep 2005, 04:06 am »

I just received the latest version of the Superphon preamp. It is the best sounding preamp that I have ever heard. I have compared a lot of preamps to my prototype. I was using Stan's prototype that was at Hiderfest "04 and that version received great reviews here on Audio Circle. I heard an earlier version of the Superphon preamp and it lacked a little bit of dynamic attack compared to my prototype. After mentioning that to Stan, he went back to work on the preamp. I sent him my prototype and he found out that the mosfets that he selected actually spec'd better on paper but were soft sounding and they had twice the measured distortion than the ones that I had in my prototype. You cannot always rely on spec's.
The version that I have is a buffer stage. It has no gain. It may not drive your system to rock volumes with speakers that are under 87 db effiecent. I understand, but have yet to hear a version that Superphon is coming out with a preamp that has gain. From the people that I know that have heard it are really singing it's praises.
The main difference between my prototype and the new Superphon preamp is its ability to project sound outside of the speakers. It also has an effortless sound compared to mine. It kind of has an anologue sound to it compard to a digital sound. I cannot speak more highly of this preamp. They are currently working on a new amp that will be displayed at the Rocky Mountain Audiofest. Superphon will be displaying their preamp and the new amp. In the same room (522) will be Reimer Speakers and my company Reality Cables. Stop by and give this room a listen. You should be impressed.

Gregg Straley

Reality Cables

Brimsley · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Sep 2005, 01:47 am »

I stumbled upon the new Superphon website by accident recently. I'm pretty disappointed at the pricing of this preamp. Despite what the website says, $2200 for a damn buffer circuit isn't "an extreme bargain". The SP100, which was also a buffer, was retailed for $400 in the early 90's. There's just not that much to a buffer circuit made for two channel, single-ended stereo (funny how people say on the one hand how less parts in a circuit are better but somehow less parts translates into a higher price), and putting a Dact volume control in the preamp only accounts for so much.

I had the impression from the website that this equipment is going to be sold directly and not through dealers. Aside from how this makes the pricing even more egregious, frankly as someone who dealt with Supermods and had the same experience as lots of others had with sending in money and equipment only to wait years for the promised service, if this equipment can only be ordered directly I wouldn't do it unless they will ship it COD or take credit cards so you could cancel the order if you get tired of waiting. Promises of two week shipment times are going to ring hollow with lots of folks out here-we've heard it all before. And this bit about Superphon not being Stan Warren is just hogwash. He's listed as the president of Superphon with the Oregon Secretary of State. Whatever his title is, he's the company.

The ironic thing is that I have no doubt about the accuracy of the comments concerning the preamp's performance based on my experiences with Stan's modifications (when I finally got my stuff back). Honestly, I think he's a genius when it comes to designing audio circuits that reveal what's in the source material. I'll probably buy one of these preamps in the used market once they start to turn over (as everything eventually does). If the list price were more reasonable for what's being sold and there wasn't this past history, I'd go ahead and order one now. Maybe things will be different this time. But right now, I think I'm gonna hold onto my $2K plus and see how things develop.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Sep 2005, 03:32 am »

Brimsley,

My experience with Stan has been positive - I've owned and enjoyed his Revelation Dual Mono for years and had it upgraded by Stan a few years ago. When I sent my pre in, it took a little longer than expected, but nothing overdone. There was a period of about a week where I couldn't reach Stan, and had to resort to mailing him as to the whereabouts of my preamp.

It sounded great after the modding...and Stan's price for it was remarkably light.

But, I know of the headaches others have experienced.

However, it found Greg's comment above to run a little hollow...that Superphon isn't Stan Warren. Come on now, Greg, Chuck Jones is Stan's friend and neighbor in Eugene, OR. I've spoken with him twice, he is an electrician or plumber by trade; certainly not anyone we'd have heard of and certainly someone that you know given your several year relationship with Stan.

He may well be intimately involved with Superphon...but Superphon is Stan's baby and Stan is responsible for buying the name back from Audio Advisor...from whom he sold the company and name back in '91 or so.

I may still buy a product from the new Superphon, 'cause I think Stan is truly gifted, but please cut the in-elaborate smoke screen and and just state the facts:

Superphon, with Stan Warren as Designer and President, is back and is being assisted by long time audio enthusiast and friend, Chuck Jones

_scotty_ · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Sep 2005, 04:25 am »

Brimsleys first post could have wasted less of my time and the forums' bandwidth if he had simply stated "I am a dissatisfied former customer and I think Stan's new preamp costs too much and I won't buy one for retail from him no matter how good it might sound."
Scotty

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Sep 2005, 03:28 pm »

www.Superphon.com seems to be the new, still-yet-sparse, website.

Agisthos · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Sep 2005, 09:49 am »

A buffer pre without gain?

Guys I am a little confused does that mean this pre is essentially like a passive (all those negative things come to mind, lack of dynamics e.t.c when I think of a passive)

Harmon · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Sep 2005, 11:38 am »

I have a Stan Warren buffer in my system and it has plenty of dynamics. If you want a window into the music you only want a wire going from your source(i.e. cdp) to your amplifier. The Superphon is such a wire with the ability to attenuate the volume. Like a photograph that is blown up in size once looks good. Blow it up again(adding another amplifier into a system between source and amplifier(preamp)) you start to get graininess in the picture. In other words you get better sound with one amplifier(power amp) in a system rather than two(preamp being the second amplifier). Less is more in high end audio.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Sep 2005, 05:37 pm »

The Superphon buffer is an active impedance matching device with the ability to transparently attenuate the incoming signal with virtually no loss of fidelity.
His zero gain buffer is a discrete circuit with no negative feedback. A simple potentiometer in series with the source is a frequently called a passive preamp. The problems you mentioned occur because no impedance matching can be obtained with this type of setup.
Scotty.

Steve · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Sep 2005, 07:26 pm »

Hi Scotty,

Just wanted to mention a slight mistake in the technical area. Not to be negative, but a cathode/source follower circuit (as my college textbook Semiconductor and tube electronics mentions, page 205) mentions

"The common-pate or cathode-follower circuit configuration is an extreme example of degenerative (negative) feedback, since all output signal is fed back in such a way that it appears in the input (grid to cahode) voltage loop in phase opposition to the signal voltage."

On the plus side, the "speed" or rise times are extremely fast with this type of circuit.

Take care and have a great week.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Sep 2005, 12:32 am »

A circuit using a single mosfet is used in the Superphon buffer and provides current gain only, no voltage gain and is technically called a source follower. It has an active current source in place of a degeneration resistor. This is a non-inverting circuit. The output is in phase with the input. Traditionally in the audio community feedback has been a signal taken from the output which is taken to a point or summing junction for the purposes of error correction. With this definition in mind this buffer has no voltage gain or error correcting abilities other than it's intrinsic linearity and low source impedance[approximately 40ohms and less than.002 THD 20Hz to20kHz at
any voltage less than 3volts RMS]. Any other definition that you feel more comfortable with is your perogative.
Scotty

Steve · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Sep 2005, 04:40 am »

Yes, signal from the output back to the input is typically thought of as "voltage feedback". The current source provides feedback, just like the resistor will, that is technically called "current feedback". Yes, current feedback will "minimize" voltage gain just as voltage feedback will "minimize" voltage gain. Just some parameters are changed, such as output Z etc.

No harm meant Scotty.

Steve

Quote from: _scotty_

A circuit using a single mosfet is used in the Superphon buffer and provides current gain only, no voltage gain and is technically called a source follower. It has an active current source in place of a degeneration resistor. This is a non-inverting circuit. The output is in phase with the input. Traditionally in the audio community feedback has been a signal taken from the output which is taken to a point or summing junction for the purposes of error correction. With this definition in mind this buffer ha ...

douglesc · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Sep 2005, 06:23 am »

To ALL: 1. One thing I can say is this preamp is Tops in performance.

2.They didn't restart the company to fail and that means in customer satisfaction also as the company will not suceed without it.

3. I BET if any of you gave it a chance you would see that I am right.

JCC · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Nov 2005, 09:39 pm »

Douglas is righton. If any of you audiophiles want the best, try the new Superphon. It will reveal more of your music than your current preamp.

I am anxious to try out the new Superphon AMP.

mrmusic · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Nov 2005, 01:18 am »

We here at SUPERPHON are working on a new web site it is partialy finished it provides more information and looks quite a bit more professional. If you take time to read whats there you'll get a better understanding of the money spent to build this product. We will also be offering a remote option within the next two months. www.superphon.com