As Carson used to say "a visitor from the East"

John Casler · « **on:** 13 Aug 2005, 02:19 am »

Had a nice visit and listening session with an AC member "Woodsyi" today, and just wanted to say how enjoyable it is to be able to spend a few minutes with fellow AC members, especially VMPS owners (but all are welcome)

Luckily, I had just a few days ago hooked up a second "Son of AMPzilla" to my RM30's and everything was sounding 'pretty decent' (at least to me)

I don't imagine Woodsyi will be able to comment since he is travelling, but maybe when he returns he'll see this note.

I know some have wondered about the "push/pull" bass system I have been using and tweaking, and I beleive Woodsyi might be able to comment on what he was able to hear (other than the walls flexing during some heavy passages of American Beauty

)

My intent has always been to create a "seamless blending" between the RM30s and the LARGERS, as well as the maximum amount of "clean" detail way down deep.

Maybe Woodsyi will add his comments on if I have had a "little" success at acheiving these goals "at the most improtant of all areas....the Sweet Spot".

Woodsyi, thanks for stopping by, and also hi to your friend Peter.

You both are invited back "anytime"

woodsyi · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 07:18 pm »

John,

Thanks for having me and Peter over. It was an eye opening and ear deafening experience.

First impressions:

1) John is in impressive physical shape!

2) John's room is "dedicated" to music!

3) I will never be able to copy John in either.

My body has never looked like that and no way my wife will agree to even half of John's tweeks.

The Sweet Spot

Leather chair sits centered about 9 feet in front of RM30s that are about 8 feet apart and are 3 feet away from the front wall. The "throne" is shrouded from ceiling to floor with acoustic canopy covering the sides and rear of the chair. Early reflection point on the front ceiling is treated with three dimensional fabric jabot/cascade. The whole front wall behind the speakers are covered with acoustic foam wedges . With all the drapes and "studs" on the wall, the room has a surreal feel of a Victorian Boudoire/Dungeon with seductive sounds to boot -- a male fantasy come true. Anne Rice as A N Roquelaure would be proud, but I digress.

Side walls are far away. I wish I had this much room. Next to RM30s on the outside 2 larger subs are sitting on their side with woofers firing toward the sweet spot and passives pointing inward with baseplate off. Heavy weights covered in cloths sit on top of all speakers. There are 2 larger subs behind the spot with woofers pointing toward the spot competing a quad of subs. The chair is sort of like the locus of power in an esoteric ring of power! Once the music flows you definitely feel connected.

Sound

The bass just kicks ass. It is the tightest, musicallest, seamlessest bass I have ever heard in a room. John has the subs lowpassed at 35 Hz (he thought at 12 db) and runs RM 30's full. The rear subs have reversed polarity. It works in his room. He played various cuts to showcase bass and they did. It was a pleasure to hear acoustic double bass guitar as if the bassist was right there on stage in front of you -- no hint of peaks or dips. Even the low rumble off American Beauty CD had "definition." It was so good that I came home and promtly rearranged my 2 largers on their sides just like John. I will report on my findings after I add some weights on the subs. I am a little upset that Nuforce amps arrived after my visit. It would've been fun to compare Nuforce with SoA. SoA running full range on RM30 sounded good overall but I prefer the sound of my tubes on the ribbons. But for bass, I am in awe of John's system! The most impressive aspect of this kick-butt bass is that all the tweaks are "cheap." John doesn't have audiophile rack or isolation devices. He does have Pringle caps to elevate his speaker cables.

Of course, a pair of RM30s and 4 Larger subs are not cheap but he doesn't use any $$$$$ accessory to make them sing. Very impressive, John. Now that I know how good the bass can be, I have some work to do and a lot of convincing to do!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 07:40 pm »

Did anyone happen to take any photo's ? Thanks !!

ctviggen · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 08:17 pm »

Why is the baseplate off the woofers? I'm going to orient my two largers the same way (though I think I'll leave the baseplate on), but I'm going to put the subs on stands/bass traps. One of these days, I'll have data to show whether or not this setup works.

woodsyi · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 08:49 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

Why is the baseplate off the woofers?

I don't know but they work for John. I turned mine on the side but kept the base plate on. I am getting better bass response as I fiddle with the placement. I think it has to with timing of the woofers -- RM bass woofer and 2 sub woofers are phase coherent? I want to weigh down the subs and move it around a little more before reporting back but prognosis is good. I may even test with plate on and off. If the plateless is better, I may remove the rails as well.

John Casler · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 10:36 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

John,

Thanks for having me and Peter over. It was an eye opening and ear deafening experience.

First impressions:

1) John is in impressive physical shape!
2) John's room is "dedicated" to music!
3) I will never be able to copy John in either. My body has never looked like that and no way my wife will agree to even half of John's tweeks.

The Sweet Spot

Leather chair sits centered about 9 feet in front of RM30s that are about 8 feet apart and are 3 feet ...

Hi Woodsyi,

Thanks for all the nice comments. I hope your ears are OK. I took a listen in the sweet seat a few hours after you two left, without touching the volume control and it was "LOUD!!!"

Finally someone who can report back on the bass. And as I mentioned I don't really have any bass traps yet, or even equalization. The results are all from the "quad" set up, and yes I have the rear "out of phase" to the fronts, which are "on plane" with the mains.

I might add that we listened to:

1) Hugh Masekela - Stimela (Coal Train) which is stunning on this system
2) Dead Already - from the American Beauty "Original Score" album
3) Kraftwerk's - Techno Pop from Electric Cafe
4) Eva Cassidy's - Fields of Gold, off her Songbird Album

John Casler · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 10:38 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

Did anyone happen to take any photo's ? Thanks !!

Gee, I didn't even think of a camera. It would have been nice.

John Casler · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 10:44 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

Why is the baseplate off the woofers? I'm going to orient my two largers the same way (though I think I'll leave the baseplate on), but I'm going to put the subs on stands/bass traps. One of these days, I'll have data to show whether or not this setup works.

Hi Bob,

The bass plates off was just an accident that for some reason worked.

The subs are actually designed use the "specific size and opening" of the slot to provide a resisitive load the rest of the system, for maximum results.

I accidently pulled one of the plates off while the sub was playing and noticed quite a difference, so I pulled it all of them off.

It might just be my room and the paths, (WHO KNOWS), but the deal is it works quite well.

Bass seems smooth, well integrated, w/few if any modes/nodes, and it does have "texture and definition" way down deep, where most have "wooly mush".

ctviggen · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Aug 2005, 03:34 pm »

Well, I might try taking the base plate off, too, as I bought both of my woofers used and one does not have a baseplate. I was going to order a base plate from Brian. I wonder if it's the massive opening? Perhaps the opening is so large that there really is no resistance?