How much is a "used" speaker worth?

John Casler · « **on:** 2 Aug 2005, 12:52 am »

I was reading what a great deal people can get on some used RM40s right now, and I wondered what people might consider a fair price to pay for used speakers?

I know that is a wide open question, but lets say someone buys a speaker today that lists for $5000, for say $4250 (most can find 15% off if not more) and they sell it 2 years later.

How much should it be worth, as long as it is not damaged and plays fine.

Is there any "rule of thumb"?

75% what it actually cost?
50%?

I seldom sell "used" speakers unless the are very "new" (as in someone decided to upgrade, or very old.

What is a good "rule of thumb" for "late model" used speakers or can there be one?

JoshK · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 01:06 am »

tough question

it seems as though this is a predominately market driven affect, so to ignore how the market determines the price would be fool-hearty.

I think it boils down to the 1) popularity of the speaker (reviews go a long way here, irregardless of right or wrong), 2) # of models currently on the market or 3) whether it is the latest hot item or hot item of yesteryears (which often see pennies on the dollar).

I hate to say it but audiophiles are sheep too. There are a few that lead and many that follow. If someone has the latest and greatest and says that their X is not as good, soon we'll see many X's on the market and a flood of orders for the latest and greatest. As much as you will see a million justifications for why this is not so, the history bears this out. Of course supply has a large part of it too. (if you want to research more on the topic, do some digging on 'herding behavior & probability').

I am not trying to embarrass anyone or be judgemental but I am trying to describe how the dynamics of the audio second hand market work. I could numerous items that were highly demanded and bid up only a couple months ago that are taking large baths in the secondary market today.

When a company comes out with a 'new and improved' model, the later models will still sharp and sudden depreciation. What drives some markets on ebay for NOS goods, while other NOS goods of similar nature go for pennies? Same thing going on here. People don't want to be bothered with sending things in to be updated, they want it as of the latest for a lot less than that currently costs.

JohnR · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 01:48 am »

In my experience, about 50% of retail. It varies a lot, of course.

John Casler · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 01:57 am »

I post this because I get ask this question much more frequently than I would have imagined, and I really don't have a good idea.

People who want to sell their speaker ask, and people who might be customers ask.

I know it is market driven too, but I think most do a "quick and dirty" computation of what they "feel" something is worth by knowing either the retail price or the purchase price.

Bingenito · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 02:02 am »

Audiogon has offers access to Blue Book. I have never used it but it might be worth looking into for market value.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 04:39 am »

It all depends on the market...

Generally you should be able to get close to 50% of list, but some brands (and models) hold their value better than others (just like cars).

For example, I recently sold two VMPS Larger subwoofers and one pair of RM 40's.

The subs went for roughly 50% (actually slightly more), while the RM 40's were a good deal under 50% (killer deal for the guy who picked them up this past weekend).

In my opinion the market has dried up for some of the VMPS models (take a look at Audiogon). Last year when I sold my first pair of RM 40's, I was able to get well above 50% of list.

Josh, hit it on the head when he said many audiophiles are sheep...

George

gongos · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 05:53 am »

I think the problem with the RM 40's is their so fricking big the pool of people willing to deal with them is smaller than normal. I'd love to have a pair, but there's no way I'm going to mess around with a 200+ lb speaker, which is why I have some tricked out 626r's. For this reason, the RM 30's probably have a much higher resale value.

zybar · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 12:44 pm »

Quote from: gongos

I think the problem with the RM 40's is their so fricking big the pool of people willing to deal with them is smaller than normal. I'd love to have a pair, but there's no way I'm going to mess around with a 200+ lb speaker, which is why I have some tricked out 626r's. For this reason, the RM 30's probably have a much higher resale value.

Agreed.

However, they were same size when I sold my first pair at a considerably higher price.

BTW, they are actually very easy to move around for such a large speaker.

George

Marbles · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 01:10 pm »

The answer to the original question, is of course, more than the $3600 that I'm asking

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=17333&highlight=vmps+rm40

JoshK · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 01:52 pm »

I think that the size of a large speaker and the willingness of the seller to ship and the availability of reasonable shipping have a large part to do with it too.

Like Gongo said, the size of the RM40s make the market much smaller than otherwise. They aren't all that hard to move around the house but shipping them do to their height and weight is difficult.

50% is a good rule of thumb on used gear.

WerTicus · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 02:30 pm »

bose hold their value well and they dont play well new or otherwise

BradJudy · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 03:02 pm »

I definitely agree that it's all about the market and market forces for particular products. In the case of the RM40, recently there has been a healthy supply available on the used market and I think there is also decreased demand since the release of the RM30 (which is smaller, cheaper and getting great feedback). I think the RM30 has marginalized the RM40. As mentioned, there are also the logistical issues of buying/shipping/owning such a larger speaker. In Marbles' case, I expect the local pick-up requirement is greatly hindering the demand for his pair.

There are plenty of speakers out there that sell quickly on the used market because the supply is very low and the demand is there. There are also ones that always seem to have several Agon ads at any given time.

Other products become marginalized as newer versions are released (e.g. B&Ws regular churn of new speaker versions) or as retail price structures change (e.g. the Onix Ref1/SP3 combo greatly changed the resale value of Ref1s).

JLM · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 05:51 pm »

Market size and content value have much to do with this.

Market size for large/heavy speakers or odd ball speakers (mine qualify on both counts) will be lower.

Content value (VMPS and my Bob Brines FTA-2000) are both higher than typical products.

KeithR · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 12:33 am »

My Sophias I could sell in 10 minutes on A'gon at the price I would want. And they are 160 lbs a piece...

It's all supply and demand....Merlins are the one that get me most....they are so "uber" popular but look at the resale. Not sure why anyone would buy new.

Florian · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Aug 2005, 03:30 pm »

Well it depends on how rare it is. For instance there are only 2 DIVAS in the world in better than new cndition and those are mine and Stanleys. They are worth more now than then when they were released. To get an RM40 is easy and therefore the price is not as stable. Also speakers that stay on top are stable. Speakers that dont change are stable, for instance an old B&W800 Matrix is stable since they never modded or updated it, same with Apogee.

-Flo