[BradJudy]

Very nice sub.  Hopefully it's sold so I"m not tempted to buy it to go with these -





(actually I don't want a sub for those, but Mappa Burl speakers and subs have to give each other shout-outs )

[RAW]

Yes thos would look great.
Will be nice to meet you at the show.

[klh]

BJ... they are beautiful. I can see how you don't want to be, but most likely are, tempted to get the subs. They would look fantastic together... as I'm sure they would also sound fantastic together.

[Milehighguy]

It's noon on friday, Sept.30. As I get ready to go to the show....

Just wanted to point out that CSS has a few ( I don't know how many) of the Criterion speakers in Mappa burl at closeout price. Someone could get the woofer and matching Criterions , and have a great set-up on the cheap.

[Milehighguy]

Now it's saturday evening, 10-1-05 and I just got back from the show. I was quite impressed by the "anonymous" open-back arrays on friday and saturday. They sound excellant. I was more interested in hearing the RA-8 however, for financial and space reasons. The RA-8's are better suited to smaller rooms and smaller budgets( I'm sure they would do fine in larger rooms as well). Late saturday I finally got the chance to hear them. Oh My God. We were on the 2nd floor and my jaw was in the lobby on the first floor. These are serious speakers folks.
 Pin-point imaging, smooth yet detailed sound, terrific dynamics, fast clean bass. And enough bass extension that a sub is optional ( I listened without the gr sub connected) I was sitting fairly close, but noticed little or no high frequency drop-off when going from seated to standing, and the highs were excellant. I'm not a golden-ear type that notices a sound change  when a piece of dust falls on the speaker wire, but I really couldn't fault the sound of these speakers. They do everything I want a speaker to do, and very well indeed.
What was I to do?

I bought the show pair!

Thank you Al and Danny for giving a non-wealthy audio guy a taste of audio nirvana.

P.S. The Dodd electronics deserve credit as well.

[wshuff]

What are the speakers in BradJudy's post above?  They're beautiful.

[RAW]

Well it was nice to spend some time with you tonight.
Yes we have a proud new owner of the first pair that were built complete with Sonicap bypass on the Sonicaps
As these have been in Texas I am glad they are going to a local that can really enjoy them and I know you will.

Yes as you made note the ports were plugged as they were a little to bass heavy in a small hotel room.
And even with no sub and the ports plugged they still produce a lot of low end in room.
A lot for the dollar value here.

And 2 center channels on the way to match!!

As for the wife I have a feeling after seeing you two this afternoon that you will come out just fine.She was a very nice lady ,and think with your sub from last year youwill have fine match.

All the best.

PS: did you gift fit?

Thanks again and see you Sunday.

[Milehighguy]

The jacket fits good.
Yes I forgot to mention that Al kindly gave me a genuine Raw Acoustics jacket with "RAW  ACOUSTICS  HOME THEATRE SPEAKERS SURREY BC" Emblazoned on the back. Now I can proudly be a walking billboard for RAW Acoustics.
Now I need a bumper sticker that says "Ask me about my RAW Acoustics Speakers".

By the way, you were right about my wife. I was joking about her reaction. She handled the news with no problem. But she told me I would have to store the jacket in a plastic bag and not put it on until I leave the house. That's because we have 2 samoyed dogs with long white fluffy fur ( that's one of them in the picture, his name is Buddy), and nothing attracts that fur better than a dark fleece jacket!

I noticed that on the RAW website the pre-order price of $1999 ends Monday 10-03-05. So order a pair by then and save $500 off the regular price of $2499.
 Of course you would be crazy to spend $2000 on a speaker you never heard. But, in my opinion,

YOU'D BE CRAZIER NOT TO.

After listening to several extremely expensive  speakers at the show that sounded not much better, or even worse than the RA-8, I have to conclude that this speaker is a major bargain. Truly high-end sound at an affordable price.

[RAW]

Thanks to Jack for the review of the RA8.
I am sure they will be a sleek fit into his listening room with the Makore sub he purchased last year

We had the RA8 going at times with and with out the SW12 sub woofer and we found that the RA8 efficency as well as the bass loading from the few more drivers from the other design was at times better suited for the room as bass was and will always be a issue in these rooms due to the size of the rooms.

Over all the show went off very well and it was nice to have a front end that we did we had the RA8 on all DODD 120 watt mono blocks

And can these RA8 crank out some serious SPL with the 120watt mono block.

We had the best match for them with the 50 watt monos that Garry brought as well.
Mid range smoother, depth and clearity was far better that the 120watt.
And yet still can driver the RA8 to the point of levels that most were finding to loud.

Would like to thank Danny,Garry for all the work at the show and giving us the chance to show the RA8.

And the rest of the crew Roy and Charlie, you crazy New Yorker

[Milehighguy]

Luckily, I didn't get to hear the RA-8 with the DODD 50 watt amps. Lucky because it could have been fatal to my budget if I decided I had to have them in addition to the RA-8's! Not that they are over priced. They look to be very reasonably priced for what they are.
With the high sensitivity, high power handling, and easy impedance of the RA-8's, you can use most of the amps out there successfully with these speakers, both tube and solid state.
And with the multiple woofers and vents breaking up room modes,along with the option of pluging the vents with foam rubber in small rooms, you also get great flexibility in room size.

I would like to mention an un-told aspect of these speakers. That is the very effective vibration-dampening system in the cabinets. I will let Al elaborate, but suffice it to say it is a very inexpensive and clever idea. When listening at moderate levels I usually can feel NO vibration from the cabinets! Even at louder levels with heavy bass, the cabinet vibration is very low, and much less than I'm used to feeling. And yet the cabinet is not excessively heavy for it's size.

That must be part of the reson for the clean, punchy and fast sound. Notes start and stop quickly with a lack of overhang and "mud". The quickness of six 5.5 inch woofers is also apparent. When playing Kick-drums at fairly loud levels, I see very little cone movement from the woofers.In fact , during those passages, I actually noticed that the midrange drivers were moving more than the woofers, and the midranges weren't moving much either! As Danny mentioned in another thread (on the GR circle), drums sound exceptionally natural on the RA-8's. And yes, as at the show, the GR sub works very well with the RA8. Most of the time they do well enough without a sub, so you could get the RA8 and add the sub later. I just dial the crossover to it's minimum 40 hz. setting and run the RA8's full range. The sub is minimally stressed, and the RA8's have no problem at all handling being run full range.

Can you tell I like these speakers?

I'll have more to say about other aspects of the sound later.

[RAW]

Ok I have brought up the issue which Jake made note to.

What kind of high speed damping material is in the RA8!
Well let me explain.
We tested a few products out on the market and a lot do little or nothing as promoted they do.Or worse!!

Lets start with the damping material.
A lot of products promote a backer to stop vibration of the cabinet walls?
Well lets think about this a resination of the MDF walls is from a few things.
Not proper bracing of the walls as well as thin walls.And last ?Keep this in mind? I will explain the ? later.

If you properly brace a cabinet you do not need damping material to a point. Here comes our ? Will explain the ? Later.

Next the cabient walls many builders use .75" or 1" for cabinets and like to use 1.25" when possible.
Building cabinets on a custom bases we have to be able to ship a product and this has some limits.Just think of the RA8 built from 1.25" MDF.
This will add a few inches to the depth as well as a hundred pounds to each in weight

So we use a .75" MDF with a brace between each driver from front to the back with all the cabient made from .75" MDF.
This way we are building the walls to the maxium ridgity we can and keeping a product still able to Ship via UPS.Not a freight company.

Now to the damping material.
Using a multy layered product that states it stops a vibration is not that easy.
You need a product that is 3/16 of an inch as a min to do what a lot of products say they can do with a thin 1/16"

All other layers on some of these products absorb the mid range and will not release it.

Any product with a top layer on the foam is not recommended at all.

Using a well braced cabinet with a dampener to help the other ? Issue will help to stop vibration, as we have made the walls as rigid as possible with bracing.

Now for the ?
Well lets see.How many of you have spent a pile of money on this material or that to still have a cabinet wall vibration you can not stop?

Well hint here? Do you mount the drivers in the cabinets with a screw!!
You just put vibration back into the cabinet walls you are trying so hard to elliminate.

So what to do.
Yes a few OEM now are rear mounting drivers to stop just the same issue I made note of.

We believe in bracing and then a small amount for damping material .

That will come last!!

Now onto the foam.
As I noted above the best foam to use in a cabinet is a open celled foam with NO I will repeat NO top layer on the foam.

Best for the money is to use a 1" foam for acoustic issues in the cabinet.


Now what was in the RA8 at Denver.

Readyfor the ???
$.25cent floor tiles
Yes .25cent floor tiles from HD.
Cut into 4" strips they fit just right in between the braces.
You will require 8-10 depending if you want to do the back walls as well.

Now the Acoustic foam in the RA8 at the show.
Sitting down for this one.
A Queen size bed topper from Wal-Mart for $6.95

Yes That was it.
We have found for the money the tiles and foam will do the best for the money if you brace a cabinet correctly.
You will still have a small amount of resination if the drivers are mounted with screws this will come from any cabinet does not matter what thichness of the walls you use if the cabinet is not braced properly you will have issues.

No I am not saying that works in all of the cabinets wee build as they all have different issues.But the RA8 was designed to be built for less that as $1000.00 (less shipping).
Well factor in 2 sheets of MDF the Kit and the bed topper and a few tiles.
Look what can be achieved

[RAW]

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_4/show-report-rocky-mountain-audio-fest-10-2005-page-34.html



For those who wanted to see the set up at RMAF.
At this time the RA8 were powered by the Dodd 50watt monos.

Price is wrong   To be $2499.00

[Milehighguy]

Those speakers sure look great, and even better in person.

 Al is to be commended for his work in finding such an effective damping material that is also inexpensive and easy to implement.

This is a clever, cost-effective design that doesn't compromise on performance and quality.

 And the fact that Al has made it as easy as possible to build as a DIY project, while keeping the total kit cost down to around $1000 is a real accomplishment.

[jimbop]

MileHighGuy: Can you contact me via email (jimmyjohn@adelphia.net)? I am in Colorado Springs and would be interested in hearing your RA8's some time if possible.

Jim D

[Milehighguy]

Hi Jim,

Will e-mail you later. We can see when that might be possible, as my schedule is tough.

Everyone who has heard them so far is very impressed. Even my wife can easily hear the difference compared to the numerous speakers that I have brought through the house. She usually says they all sound similar, but not these.

[jimbop]

Thanks Jack. I look forward to hearing from you.

Jim

[ooheadsoo]

Hey Jack, I know you heard both the RA-8 and Danny's unnamed speaker together at RMAF.  Can you give us any thoughts on the two speakers compared to each other?

[Milehighguy]

Yes, I heard them both, but not together. On friday I only heard the BTTB ("bad to the bone" as Danny calls the open backed speakers) , and thought they sounded excellant. I think the BTTB's got the most play time as they seemed to be the main attraction. I sort of decided they were a bit out of my budget range, at least as a pre-built unit, and in some ways I pushed them off of my radar screen. I mostly listened from an off to the side seat and let other more interested folks sit in the middle. I also wasn't familiar with the tunes that were playing. On Saturday I heard the BTTB's early in the afternoon, and was told to come back later to hear the RA8's. So I went and listened to a lot of other systems at the show. So later on Saturday I came back and listened to the RA8's. They could only hook up one pair at a time, so it's not like I could make a same-time comparison, and I heard a lot of other speakers in the time between hearing these two.
When hearing the RA8's, I sat in the middle and played some familiar tunes that I brought as a reference. It didn't take long to be wowed by the RA8's. Crystal clear and clean, with a big and deep soundstage, and precise imaging. Very cohesive, fast from top to bottom, detailed but smooth, very involving. Wonderful midrange vocals, but also just as excellant in the highs and bass. Very tight, fast bass. Did I mention dynamic?As I said to Al Wooley, "they are passing all my tests" and they did so with flying colors. What I said to Danny was "you done good".
I wish I could say more about the comparisons to the BTTB's.
Others have said that the BTTB's are a little more "natural" but don't have the high end "air" of the RA8. Danny says the BTTB have even better soundstaging than the RA8, less sidewall reflections, and more detail over part of their range due to a lower crossover to the tweeter. I trust Danny's ears and honesty. All I can say is that the RA8's have a wonderful sound stage,and sound very accurate and natural to me, with exceptional detail at all frequencies. I personally didn't notice a big difference in my admittedly very casual comparisons.
But I wasn't really comparing them, because there are a couple of basic reasons that you cannot compare them. Assembled BTTB's will likely cost about twice as much as the assembled RA8's. Kit BTTB's will cost more and be significantly more complicated to build, due to the bass section, and the way the RA8's have been designed to go together easily (and kit BTTB's won't even be available soon,if they even are now!). RA8's  are also more efficient, so you can use them with some lower powered amps (some tubes and some class A solid state designs for example) that you might not want to use with the BTTB's. And, as they discovered in the small room at the RMAF, if cramped quarters lead to boominess, you can put a little foam rubber (cut up pieces off a mattress pad for example) and put them in the rear ports of the RA8's to tame the excess bass. One other difference is that the BTTB's go to 25 hz compared to 40-45 hz on the RA8's. But , if you add a sw12 sub woofer at modest cost, you're good to 20hz.
To me, the RA8's were the more affordable alternative, and I couldn't be happier.

[ooheadsoo]

That's great to hear.  Thanks for your impressions.  Hopefully I can make it to the next RMAF and check both of these guys out, though you're right, the BTTBs are way out of my reach, now.

[RAW]

Yes as Jack made note of the sound difference to the un named speaker of Danny's.The Un named speaker will only be available as a finished retail speaker.
Kits were the objective but after a person of interest listened to them then he wanted Danny to make a company and sell them only retail.
Est cost is around $6000.00 .Time frame who knows.
And this was just a ball park figure that may get higher.

Now as Jack noted a sub with the RA8 is far better as the sub in the base of a speaker limits were it can be placed as well as room issues.I always perfer a speaker and a sub seperate when possible.

Using the RA104.5 ribbon as Jack noted brings a lot more open air in the high's when we were swapping them one after the other.

These are 2 complete different designs.

Good to hear Jack you are enjoying the RA8

Jack did you get together with Jim?