Stupid Copy Protection !!!

miklorsmith · « **Reply #20 on:** 29 Jul 2005, 11:04 pm »

nathanm - cogent words.

Zako, either you're a "plant" or you're utterly clueless.

Your Gestapo tactics are not welcome in this country. You would never be invited to any serious discussion of this issue of any weight. The RIAA would drop you from their negotiation team immediately if they heard your half-baked crapola. Tax for listening? Buying three copies for personal use? I haven't even heard those boneheads talking your ridiculous ideas. Making a copy of the music for your car is stealing from families and leaving children hungry?? You are couching your descriptions of harmless acts as egregious warcrimes.

You must be a plant - the other alternative is inconceivable.

Scott F. · « **Reply #21 on:** 29 Jul 2005, 11:23 pm »

You guys need to understand something. I believe Zako is taking the contrarians point of view trying to stir up crap. This is his idea of fun. He's goaded me into a nasty flurry before under the same guise.

I can't say for sure because I've never met him but I'd guess he's no more a published musician than I am a brain surgeon. He may have recorded a few orchestral performances (here locally in St Louis) but I've seen no evidence of him being member of a popular, recorded (much less) widely distributed band.

Isn't the internet a wonderful place. Wako's can hide behind screen names, spew their drivel all over a relatively civil thread and then go hide behind their anonymity.

Hey miklorsmith, I think the word you were looking for is 'troll' or even 'thread crapping'.

...ummm Mister Borg, feel free to nuke my post if you see fit since these statements are only my opinion.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #22 on:** 29 Jul 2005, 11:29 pm »

It comes up so rarely here, I don't even know the name! I do remember it from my days of trying to keep up over at AA though.

Thanks for the tip!

zako · « **Reply #23 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 02:48 am »

I quote Scott....." The RIAA , the music companys followed closely by movie studios should die slow torturous deaths" What a love / hate relationship that is. To play all that beautiful music over sutch wonderful audio equipment. What an axe to grind. Now he & a few others here have to stoop to childish name calling. I thought better of him. Perhaps I,m wrong. You talk of legal ownership rights. But in copyrights its another matter. You can play your little CD all you want plus get one copy only if the recording Industry gives you permission. That is the legal side of protecting our property. If you dont like it dont buy. But name calling? Tsk Tsk sutch children. Did,nt your parents teach you right from wrong?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #24 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 03:04 am »

Quote from: zako

I disagree.....The contents belong to me..& all intellectual copyrights pertaining to that disc also are mine. I spent alot of money on the recording studio & extra band members. To produce a record costs alot of money. Dont cry on my shoulders because your too cheap to buy a extra cd for your car. What do you think we are?? A bunch of slaves to intertain you for nothing? Maybe the RIAA should be knocking on your door. If I had it my way you would be charged every time you played your record. How many o ...

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Iwas recording engineer for St Louis Philharmonic from 1970 till 1989 we broadcast the tapes on KWMU every Sunday. Disbanded that after they decided to go talk radio.

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My TDK Rs have been holding up very well with no audible problems. Ive been using them from the beginning of TDK R introduction. One problem encountered on some playback machines is SLIPPAGE of disk. when this happens you can hear disk spin out of control & no audible music.

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Scott F. · « **Reply #25 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 04:07 am »

Quote from: zako

I quote Scott....." The RIAA , the music companys followed closely by movie studios should die slow torturous deaths" What a love / hate relationship that is. To play all that beautiful music over sutch wonderful audio equipment. What an axe to grind. Now he & a few others here have to stoop to childish name calling. I thought better of him. Perhaps I,m wrong. You talk of legal ownership rights. But in copyrights its another matter. You can play your little CD all you want plus get one copy only if th ...

OK, I'll bite.

Name calling..... Is wishing them a slow tortuous death name calling? I think not. It's just wishful thinking.

The RIAA is nothing more than a group of lawyers and accountants employed by the big three music companies who are used as their their propaganda machine, lobbists to the legislature and then act as enforcers to protect at all costs the 'industries' profits. BIG note here, the word 'industry' does NOT mean 'artists'.

As for the movie studio's, the MPAA is about to become the next RIAA. Again, the MPAA represents the studio's NOT the artists.

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But in copyrights its another matter. You can play your little CD all you want plus get one copy only if the recording Industry gives you permission.

...ummm, isn't that what I'm doing by buying CDR-M's? Aren't I being given permission by the RIAA to copy a CD by paying ANOTHER royalty for copying a CD I already own? It's not like I'm burning dozens of copies and selling them at the local flea market.

If you've ever bothered to read what I write either in columns or posts you'll find that I am absolutely pro-artist. I am always trying to get the local guys to go to concerts. I buy (literally) tons of music in support of my favorite artists. I wholely support my favorite artists by going to their concerts, buying their music and DVD's.

I've stated several times in articles that the best way to support your favorite artists is to go to their concerts. Thats (more often than not) where they make the majority of their money. The royalties from ablum sales don't nearly bring in what they make on the road from concerts and ancillary merchandise sales. My wife and I usually go to about 12 (or sometimes more) shows per year and we usually buy stuff (T shirts, hand bills, etc). I buy on average 5-6 discs per month. Thats how I support my favorite artists. And believe me, it's about the artist, not the music (or movie) company.

Why?...... Simple economics. If we don't buy an artists stuff, they go broke and stop making music. Now, if you didn't get paid at work would you stick around?............ Didn't think so. Same goes for the artist. But, since I have already paid once for a piece of music, why should I have to pay over and over again for that same piece I already paid for? Hence the CDR-M.

As for the love/hate relationship with the music companies.....you bet. The music companies have single-handedly destroyed the music industry as we know it. Music is now all about who can make the studio the most money the fastest. It's no longer about artistry and talent, it's all about the almighty dollar. Indies are the minions of the industry paying radio stations to play the latest 'pop stars' newest supposed 'hit'. Is that a bad thing? To the true music lover, yes it is. Thats why we (as a group of audiophiles) are complaining about poor sound quality and fewer quality artists. (that was a sweeping statement that doesn't hold true for the smaller labels like Fantasy Jazz, Blue Note, Telarc and the like)

But hey, wanna be a star? Got no talent? All you need is a few million bucks to pay for play and an Indie can get you all the spin time you want.

So in the end, your arguement really doesn't hold any weight on any level with me. As I said in a previous post, you're just looking to stir things up cuz you're bored and derive some twisted pleasure from it.

Florian · « **Reply #26 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 08:30 am »

Was Zako serious? I thought he was pulling our leg

zako · « **Reply #27 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 01:59 pm »

Florian......Your closer to the truth than most on here...You dont sit at a poker game without knowing the table rules. COPYRIGHT ...Those that try to go around it pay the price for disobaying the rules. An example of a company Ill call Big B. They wanted to use a illustration out of a reference book called Janes fighting ships. Big B used it in a sales brochure. The small publishing co. sued and won. They protected there copyright on contents. Another small publishing co. used a drawing of Donald Duck. Disney Corp. sued the little co & won. ......When you see that little C with a circle around it thats the copyright symble. And a warning not to cross the line. Apparently Scott cant understand this. When you use a symble or drawing for your Avator, And that drawing belongs to some one else, artist or company. And you didnt get permission watch out. Even if the artist is dead. Certain rights remain. Family or company may still have ownershop. A $10,000 can be imposed. So when you buy that comic book (Thats yours) But that Ducky belongs to some one else. Even if you modify the drawing that why Daffy & Donald look so different as not to be confused with each other. another example is Superman and Capton Marvel ...Although the suit colors look different. They really were essientially the same...DC comics won the suet ....Marvel folded. The DC Empire took over & now ol Capton Marvel belongs to them. Scott seems to be determind to throw out more crap but its sticking to him. ...I,m right he,s wrong & that the end of the argument.

Scott F. · « **Reply #28 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 02:27 pm »

Here is a DIRECT quote from the AARC website. Since you are painfully lacking knowledge, the AARC is the organization that administers the ROYALTIES collected from music duplication machines (ie my Philips dual disc recorder) and CDR-M's. The legislature stepped in and required this so that the artists were compensated when their music was copied (legally) by one of these machines or onto a CDR-M disc.

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Brief History

After more than a decade of controversy surrounding the introduction of digital audio recording technology in the United States, representatives of the audio hardware and music industries agreed to seek compromise legislation that would give consumers access to new technology while compensating artists and copyright owners for lost royalties due to home taping.

In October 1992, the United States Congress passed AHRA, which requires manufacturers or importers of digital audio recorders (including, for example, DAT, DCC, and MiniDisc recorders) and blank media to make royalty payments. In 1995, AARC became the first organization in history to distribute AHRA monies.

Royalty Payments

Under AHRA, royalty payments are deposited with the Copyright Office, a federal government agency, and placed into two separate funds for the two types of copyrighted works affected by audio home recording. The Sound Recordings Fund holds the portion of the royalties allocated to the sound recording for distribution to artists and sound recording copyright owners and the Musical Works Fund holds the portion of the royalties allocated to the underlying musical work for distribution to the songwriters and publishers. AARC represents artists and sound recording copyright owners with regard to Sound Recordings Fund royalties.

The Sound Recordings Fund makes up two thirds (2/3) of the annual AHRA royalty payments. Of that amount, four percent (4%) is allocated for distribution to non-featured musicians and vocalists, administered by the performers unions. Of the remaining royalties (96%), forty percent (40%) is allocated to the artists who perform on the sound recordings sold during the year for which the royalties were collected. Sixty- percent (60%) is allocated to the owners of the exclusive right to reproduce the sound recordings distributed during the royalty year.......

In other words, the United States Congress gives me the right to copy music that I have just purchased the software rights to. Oh, if you hadn't noticed, this legislation is over a decade old.

game, set, match

....open mouth, insert your favorite piece of anotomy

zako · « **Reply #29 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 03:11 pm »

IM aware of AARC & we are thank to that effert. Keep those dollers rolling in. But now due to copy abuse... And copy prohibit flag in newer CD,s You,l Need permission to make a dupe. Believe me It will be easier to purchase a second CD. .......Slam Dunk. ....Keep it clean Scott. Show some respect. Your getting your self soiled......I admire you supporting the local artists There is alot of good artists out there not getting national recognition, they love there work some of them are destroyed by it & takes a heavy toll on the family. The ones I know started music lessons very early in there lives ( 5 yrs old ) They are very very good. The famalies sacraficed alot to give ther talent room to grow. Playing in a large orchesrta they will only hear there collective efferts & are satisfied with that. Most keep there day jobs. A friend of mine got his PHD in music. Is music Directer of two orchestras & teaches music. Does he care if the rest of the world knows him? No. I supported another person who wanted to go over to europe to study Mahler manuscripts. He,d stand on a corner playing a pennywhistle if it would help.

zako · « **Reply #30 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 03:12 pm »

IM aware of AARC & we are thankful to that effert. Keep those dollers rolling in. But now due to copy abuse... And copy prohibit flag in newer CD,s You,l Need permission to make a dupe. Believe me It will be easier to purchase a second CD. .......Slam Dunk. ....Keep it clean Scott. Show some respect. Your getting your self soiled......I admire you supporting the local artists There is alot of good artists out there not getting national recognition, they love there work some of them are destroyed by it & takes a heavy toll on the family. The ones I know started music lessons very early in there lives ( 5 yrs old ) They are very very good. The famalies sacraficed alot to give ther talent room to grow. Playing in a large orchesrta they will only hear there collective efferts & are satisfied with that. Most keep there day jobs. A friend of mine got his PHD in music. Is music Directer of two orchestras & teaches music. Does he care if the rest of the world knows him? No. I supported another person who wanted to go over to europe to study Mahler manuscripts. He,d stand on a corner playing a pennywhistle if it would help.

nathanm · « **Reply #31 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 06:53 pm »

zako · « **Reply #32 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 07:29 pm »

Nathanm...... If you notice the cage around the suet....That will be changed to keep greedy freeloaders from taking more than they deserve. No more free lunch.

nathanm · « **Reply #33 on:** 30 Jul 2005, 11:39 pm »

Okay, let's examine the metaphor you are suggesting:

Birds=Consumers
Suet=Music
Cage=copy protection scheme

When have birds paid a fee for the suet? They didn't have to pay anything, some human hung it out there for free. So it seems unfair to call the birds "freeloaders" when in fact a "free lunch" is exactly what's being offered. Okay, but you say the cage is there to keep them from "taking more than they deserve". That assumes the birds do indeed deserve some free suet, correct? But the cage really isn't preventing them from getting the suet. It's actually serving as a place to stand on while they eat through the cage. Hanging the suet from a chain by itself wouldn't work too well. It would just fall on the ground and away from the window where the humans are likely to want to watch the birds feed. The gaps in the bars are purposely designed so that the birds can still get at the suet. If anything the only thing preventing one bird from getting more than he deserves is the competing bird, or maybe an industrious squirrel.

So if we apply this to the issue of copy protection as you suggest, it means that consumers deserve free music and that copy protection is there to dole out the proper amount to everyone even though I thought the real purpose of copy protection was supposed to be preventing people from getting free music in the first place! Hmmm, I don't get it.

I don't think this metaphor quite works.

sonicboom · « **Reply #34 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 01:14 am »

All together now!

Zako is a Wako!!!

Zako is a Wako!!!

PM me to download the music in high rez WAV format... Copy protected of course for the very reasonable fee of $19.99. That's for a one time use only, but I' ll offer quantity discounts based on the number of single user downloads.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #35 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 02:23 am »

Okay guys, no name calling or this post gets moved to the wastebin....and it started off so hopeful.

You guys don't have to agree with zako, but he has a voice and it's just 180 degree opposite of most on the subject. But, that's life.

Somebody once told me a while back (in business context) that it's not just how smart you are...it doesn't matter if you can't get along with people around you.

Let's keep it civil here on this contentious subject, purdy puh-lease.

John / TCG / Moderator

zako · « **Reply #36 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 02:11 pm »

thechairguy.......I dont mind the name calling....I came on here to show 180 degree opposite view point. And get people to think How there actions effect others, and what the consequense are. The intertainment industry has moved to protect there interests. And it could get worse. Legislative help did,nt help. So now copy protection padlocks are added to the products. Im glad to see the positive response to this site. Some children will continue to taunt & missbehave. But they too will learn something. When the rights of others are trampled on the rights of passage will be curtailed. The gates will be closed, doors will be locked. A reflection of our society today. I,m glad to have gotten some people to think!!!!!

WerTicus · « **Reply #37 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 03:12 pm »

http://www.allofmp3.com/

cd quality downloads

i believe no money goes to the RIAA, at least they are trying to shut it down

but its russian! (see link up top for english)

works well, good selection, good quality!

jhenderson010759 · « **Reply #38 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 05:19 pm »

Though copy protection may appear, or even actually be, justifiable to the artists and distribution network, the entire notion of corrupting the audio image as a means of protection is unacceptable and absurd - akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I listen primarily to classical guitar, solo violin and chamber music. These music formats are particularly susceptable to serious disruption due to the current crop of copy protection schemes, which introduce sharp transients (pops and clicks) into the audio stream in anticipation that they will be filtered by an authentic CD transport, but not by a PC rip.

Well, my Sony transport is just as incapable as my PC at filtering these transients and they remain quite audible. A few of the recent CDs I've purchased, including Peter Blanchettes Archguitar Baroque, and Biondi's Bocherinni Guitar are damn near-unlistenable on good headphones. Is piracy of these types of CDs really a meaningful problem?

It's ironic, isn't it? I used to carefully tend my LP collection in order to mitigate pops, clicks and other anomolies. Now, we have the technical capacity to produce wonderfully dynamic, virtually anomoly-free recordings and these same types of defects are being intentionally induced!

As a businessman myself, I appreciate the musicians, the distribution network and the need for profitability. I don't claim to know the solution to piracy. But damaging the product shouldn't be an option.

WerTicus · « **Reply #39 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 11:52 pm »

my denon 2900 certainly picks up all the garbage.

its not about profit, they make plenty of that its about getting every last cent.

making sales from multiple copies, etc. the good news is there will always be a way around it unless they go make the source unlistenable, oh wait, thats what they have done!

Poll

Do you see a point in copy protection ?

Stupid Copy Protection !!!