[kevinzoe]

Hi all,
I am interested in either the Titon or Maestro subs and wondered if there are any owners of such subs that reside in or near Toronto, ON Canada?  I am aware of the 30-day inhome trial but would like to possibly chat with or visit someone's home before making any purchase decision.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Harry P]

Kevin, I'm only a couple thousand miles from you. I don't have a Maestro anyway, have a couple of Force and saving for the Maestro. The Force are terrific subs, my understanding is that all the ACI subs sound the same (great!) just higher sound levels with the larger ones. Might want to see if there's anyone close with any of the ACI subs. I can't recommend highly enough and I did a ton of comparing with RELs, Velos, B&Ws, etc

[oris98]

Hi Harry,

Where are you exactly located ?  I am in Vancouvcer BC, Canada.   I am debating if I should go for a pair to get stereo.   What is your experience in stereo force ?   A lot better ? Do you use the 85hz RCA resister for your amp to filter LF from your main speakers too ?  
Thanks.

[kevinzoe]

Thanks for your replies folks.  Harry P. - glad to know that the ACI Force bested whatever you looked at from B&W, REL, Velo etc.  Can you be a bit more specific as to why the ACI's "beat-out" the others and what your evaluation criteria were/are?

Was room acoustic eq abilities, such as within the Velo DD- series subs, important to you? I would think that it ought to be. By the way have you tried ACI's sub room eq tool (R-DES room correction tool) and if so any thoughts?

Finally, like oris98 I too would like to know how effective using the passive HF filter at the amp's input is to the sound.

Cheers,
kevin

[Harry P]

I'm currently moving from the midwest to the southwest . . .damn job.

I love the stereo Force for two-channel, it is just completely seamless and natural. I've heard more bass, but never better or more natural bass. It took me quite a bit of playing around with placement and the controls. It wasn't hard to get it to sound good, but it took effort (fun) to get it really good. Several years ago I started a hunt for subs. Some friends and I checked out a bunch of models. At that time REL was considered one of the finest music subs available, I guess it still is for good reasons. We spent several weekends setting ups and tweeking the Strata III vs. the Force. We also tried a Velo ULD15 and B&W can't remember the model number but it was a 12". Our criteria was seamless integration and natural musical reproduction. The only measuring we did was trying to match levels as closely as possible with the ratshack meter. The Velo had a lot of power and seemed to reach the deepest, but we just couldn't get it to not be noticed. I'm sure for HT it would be great but on music it just called too much attention to itself. That was also what we found with the B&W although it wasn't as powerful as the Velodyne. The Rel was darn good, it and the Force sounded a lot alike and if we kept the crossover real low, like 40Hz on down, it was very tough to tel the two apart. With the crossover at 80, the Rel could be localized and the Force could not. To us, at 1/2 the price, the Force was the easy winner. The passive filters work great for relieving the load off your mains and main amplifier. They do cut the level a bit so you have to adjust for that. They really improved the sense of dynamic contrast with my Sapphire 25th edition.

[kevinzoe]

Thanks Harry for your detailed answers to my questions.  I take it that you have not invested or used ACI's R-DES room correction tool from your comments about trying various positions etc.

I am limited by a WAF of where a sub can be put within our living/listening room so I'm concerned that the only position for it may be less than optimal (likely a Murphy's law thing) so having a tool to reduce this risk and improve the changes of getting it to sound "right," wherever it's placed, is important to me.

Mike Dzurko, if you're reading this, could you comment on my placement dilema and if a 4-band eq that the R-DES offes is sufficient?

Cheers,
Kevin

[mcgsxr]

Could you expand a little on room size, shape, and WAF req'd sub placement?

[kevinzoe]

mcgsxr -- generally speaking I have an open concept living/dining/kitchen main floor of my home with the living room facing the street, the kitchen at the back and dining room in the middle.  House length is about 40feet by 15 feet wide (typical Toronto semi-detached home) except that the listening area is about 11 feet wide due to a small wall by the front door adjacent to the living room.  I think a picture will best spell it all out - see the attached link of my system and room at Audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vopin&1038609944&view

Normally, a love seat sits against the right wall about 3-4 feet from the right speaker but I moved it for the picture.  The sub is likely to be put on the right wall in front of the right speaker, kind of sandwiched between the right speaker and the love seat out of the way and mostly out of sight for the WAF I speak of.

[Mike Dzurko]

Thanks Harry for your detailed answers to my questions.  I take it that you have not invested or used ACI's R-DES room correction tool from your comments about trying various positions etc.

I am limited by a WAF of where a sub can be put within our living/listening room so I'm concerned that the only position for it may be less than optimal (likely a Murphy's law thing) so having a tool to reduce this risk and improve the changes of getting it to sound "right," wherever it's placed, is important to me.
 ...

Don't worry too much, very few people have the flexibility to place their subs optimally. . . yet they are able to get very good results. Yes, R-Des is a great tool for optimizing any sub in any placement. HIGHLY recommended for anyone wanting to really hear what their sub is capable of.