[John Ashman]

no need to hear the Stratus Gold I's now to know I'll dislike them.  

And that statement is even more telling.  

[mcrespo71]

no need to hear the Stratus Gold I's now to know I'll dislike them.  

And that statement is even more telling.  

Sure, none of us use subjective reviews to narrow down what we'd like to audition.  It's never, ever been done before.  

If someone describes a speaker metaphorically like a truck, I don't care to hear it.

Michael

[John Ashman]

If someone describes a speaker metaphorically like a truck, I don't care to hear it.

Worried you might like it?  Or just enjoy ignorance?

The rest of the metaphor is that most of R&R is like a dirt road, not a super highway.  If you do most or all of your driving on a dirt road, do you want a truck or a sports car?   I'm sure a Neat speaker is fine, but compared to something like a Gold and many other speakers, it's going to be, well, something of a pussy.  And I'm sure that's fine for some people.  

 

[nathanm]

If I had a big room and the freedom to play loud music I would probably try out powered Mackie PA cabinets.   Since their studio monitors impressed me so much I'd bet that their PA gear might be good too.  Might as well use the same type of stuff you would hear at a gig, just at a much smaller scale.  I would imagine this stuff plays louder before distortion than a home speaker.

[mcrespo71]

If someone describes a speaker metaphorically like a truck, I don't care to hear it.

Worried you might like it?  Or just enjoy ignorance?

The rest of the metaphor is that most of R&R is like a dirt road, not a super highway.  If you do most or all of your driving on a dirt road, do you want a truck or a sports car?   I'm sure a Neat speaker is fine, but compared to something like a Gold and many other speakers, it's going to be, well, something of a pussy.  And I'm sure that's fine for some people.  

 

And you are giving me **** about making assumptions about a speaker I haven't heard.  

Michael

[_scotty_]

What happened to the idea of accurately reproducing the source material.
This thread looks like it is propagating the the old audiophile wives tale about some speakers being better for rock music and some being better for jazz or classical music.  I thought these were more enlightened times and that people were better informed than this.  A speaker is either accurate at reproducing the signal that it is fed and therefore faithfully reproduces all types of music or it is inaccurate.  You can't have it both ways.
I suspect some of what is actually being discussed is related to how tolerant an individual is to dynamic scaling errors and dynamic compression issues that are problems that smaller speaker systems suffer from due to the size and the number of drivers in the system.
One person might be more tolerant of the errors a smaller speaker has than another person. The second person would be happier with a bigger speaker that suffers less from these types of distortions when they listen to music and they may be most sensitive to them when they are listening to rock music.  
My two cents worth,Scotty

[PhilNYC]

What happened to the idea of accurately reproducing the source material.... A speaker is either accurate at reproducing the signal that it is fed and therefore faithfully reproduces all types of music or it is inaccurate.  You can't have it both  ...

In general I agree with this.  However, particularly in the range of products that are being discussed here, none of these products are anywhere close to being 100% accurate in their reproduction of the source material.  As such, each product is making choices in the tradeoffs they make...sacrifices in one area in order to be better in others.  From the sounds of it, the PSB Stratos Gold focuses on delivery deep and big bass...the Neat Acoustics stuff focuses on PRaT...etc etc.

[John Ashman]

Scotty, the reality is that recordings aren't perfect and most speakers are even less perfect.  There is also a difference between saying "I want a speaker that ROCKS [aka "jams" aka "kicks ass"]" and "I want a speaker that accurately reproduces rock recordings".  There are "better" speakers than the Golds, for sure, they just are fun, powerful, forgiving and, yes, they "ROCK".  There are other speakers that "ROCK".  I just happen to know these very well.  Plus, I don't sell them, so no one can accuse me of bias.  

Let's review the initial post:

Please share with me systems you have found that can do justise to Rock and Roll.

My little Onix system does not cut it in that department!

I miss my Iron Maiden, Sevendust, Van Halen, Prong, Queensryche, Tool, Michael Schenker, Fireball Ministry, Motley Crue, BOC, Megadeth, Pantera, AC/DC, Motorhead, STP, Gruntruck, COC, White Zombie, Toadies, UFO, Melvins, Queens of the Stone Age and so on!

Seems to me the Onix system has a *lot* more in common with a Neat speaker than the Golds.  And getting these would likely just repeating the same path.  I can guarantee that Van Halen doesn't sound so hot on *my* favorite speakers.  Sounds pretty awesome on the Golds though.  I guess it depends on if he's hung up on resolution and imaging or whether he just wants something that makes that particular type of music more enjoyable, even if  you sacrifice in other areas.  I have a lot of customers that own Golds and few would part with them, even for speakers that are technically better.

[Rob Babcock]

I'm not, but there is no substitution for cubic inches! I guarantee the Golds will play effortlessly at volumes that no 2-way 6" speaker can do.

Now, wait a minute, John- isn't this exactly what I said about the NHT/DEQX system only to be poo-pooed by you?   I suppose that's a special exception.

I'm not real keen on the Stratus Golds, but I only heard them on a couple of occasions, and both times in the same system.  Not my cup of tea, but I guess not a bad speaker.

BTW, I tend to agree that good speakers are hardly genre-specific.  If a speaker can't "rock", then it probably can't do much else right, either.  JMOHO- YMMV.

[flintstone]

P.R.A.T., I hate that snob invention of a word. nathanm's got the right idea but may not work on your audiophile recordings.

The PSB's nor the NEATS can hang with the 220# each VMPS Supertowers on rock...I've heard them both and countless others.

They are much better looking though so may be a better idea! Of course, when I rock I'm so drunk I don't care if my speakers are ugly!

Dave

[Rob Babcock]

I wish I could afford a storeroom full of speakers I could swap out depending upon what genre I'm listening to.  

[John Ashman]

Now, wait a minute, John- isn't this exactly what I said about the NHT/DEQX system only to be poo-pooed by you?   I suppose that's a special exception.

I'm not real keen on the Stratus Golds, but I only heard them on a couple of occasions, and both times in the same system.  Not my cup of tea, but I guess not a bad speaker.

Actually, well, the Xds can and do "rock" as well as the Golds, but they are less forgiving of poor recordings - sometimes a bit of ignorance can be bliss.  And, they're more than twice the price. Unlike the Golds, they exaggerate every difference in recording quality.   I haven't heard the Golds in awhile so they may sound too "fuzzy" to me by now - I'm getting spoiled by Xd - let me tell you, you haven't heard "The Wall" until you've heard it on Xds  I guess, IMO, in order to be a great R&R speaker you almost have to begin with good bass and dynamics and work your way out from there.  An ideal speaker would be able to do *everything* well and, hey, might even have a "warmth button" for older recordings.  Or, come with a free Meridian G68 processor

[nathanm]

Maybe not what the 'ol battle axe wants in the average living room, but hey I think it looks pretty cool.  Looks like a speaker that means business.  And hey, if you ever have a block party you'll be the go-to guy with these suckers.

And how 'bout this subwoofer fer cripes sakes:


But I do agree that there is no such thing as a speaker which rocks on Rock and sucks on Other Music, I just don't buy that.  It's more of a matter of what the listener prefers to hear.

My theory is that a PA speaker like these might impart a certain tonal coloration that one associates with live, amplified music (which CAN sound really excellent) and perhaps serve the playback of AC\DC etc. in a flattering manner.  Or maybe not.  I will let you know for sure as soon as I buy my first farm house.  I think the key for suspending disbelief with rock is; big room, loud volume, chest-resonating bass when the kick drum hits.  So I suppose that would mean a bias towards louder low bass and not so much SUB bass.

[Bemopti123]

Natham, dang, those speakers, I am sure they ROCK, but their looks tell you that they "Metal" and "Hard."  

Wow.  Look at that subwoofer!  Now, lets not even talk about WAF.

[Scott F.]

Guys,

Believe it or not, you can have your cake and eat it too. Heres the trick. An active crossover. You guys having the age old arguement about accuracy in reproduction.

Lets face some simple facts. All recordings are not created equal. We all realize that. The trick is to be able to play all of your music collection, not just the 'Audiophile' or not just the 'Rock' in your catalog.

How do you do that? Get yourself (or build yourself) a pair of passive subs. I use the Adire Shivas in corner loaded, 5 cu ft cabs. Then get yourself a kick ass pair of mini-monitors. A pair that does all the great stuff we audiophiles love. They image and soundstage like crazy, do vocals well, are extended and hold true to timbre. For me, Klaus' Epiphony's fit the bill.

Next, go off to eBay or Agon and pick up an active crossover. Something like a Pioneer SF 750 (thats what I use). Steer clear of the pro-sound XO's. They are far too complicated for audiophile use (read=too many parts inside). Then hunt yourself up an old, high powered solid state amp to use as a stereo sub amp. For me it's a Spectro Acoustics. 1000 watts of power into 4 ohms. Cost, $200 on eBay (I did recap it BTW). Forget about the Crowns, Carvers, QSC's and all that, an old, high powered SS amp sounds 90% as good as those $1-$2K new ones (been there, tried that).

The active XO allows you to change the XO frequency on the fly. For harsh and obnoxious Rock (which I listen to all the time, TYVM), I set the XO frequency up at about 250 Hz and boost the bass amp (OH MY GOD, HE BOOSTS THE BASS!!!!) anywhere from 3 to 6 dB. This lets me play AC/DC, Judas Preist, Rob Zombie, NIN, whomever with a fairly decent bass to treble balance. Obviously, you have to set the bass and XO frequency by ear (and recording).

This makes Rock sound absolutely fabulous. Better than any single set of speakers I've ever heard, bar none. Then when I want to listen to Jazz or Classical, I set the XO back down around 100Hz and trim the bass amp back to flat.

Obvoiusly, this type setup forces you to fiddle more with the sound but it's the compromise chosen to live with........and it works. At least I can say that my system can play anything and everything and have it sound great at any listening level (read = 105+dB). Oh and BTW, the system still projects a killer image well above the three digit SPL level.

My test of a good system/speaker. Play Oingo Boingo's Dead Mans Party ...... LOUD ...... and try to make it sound good (read balanced). Then put on put on YoYo Ma and Emmanual Axe's, Brahams Cello Concertos and keep Ma's cello from sounding tubby. It can't be done unless you use an active XO and big subs.  

Heres how I do it.


Oh, and it doesn't have to cost a fortune.
Think used.


Just my $.02

[Rob Babcock]

Yep, looks like you could get "brown note" bass outta that rig!   But I don't think the old Priest discs sound bad at all.  They're kinda minimalist mixes, and I haven't noticed that they were overly bright.

For the record, I certainly haven't found that rock has the market cornered on bad sound.  There's plenty of dreadful sounding classical and jazz discs, too.  I'm often surprised by how good even very old rock and metal discs sound.  Not all of them, mind you, but I was listening to some old Thin Lizzy and thinking to myself, this sounds better than many new albums.

[mca]

I like your thinking, Scott. Very nice setup and something I will have to look into. Read your review of the Epiphony and it sounds like a heck of a nice monitor. Out of curiosity, what amps are you driving them with? I see they are tubes and with the spl's you are talking about, I assume they are a fairly high wattage?

I think folks have been reading my post wrong. I have a small (14' x 18') living room and don't want a massive speaker to blow me out of it. I like to listen to all kinds of music, but when the mood hits, I just want to be able to enjoy some of my metal and rock.

OK, maybe when I'm in the mood I do want to crank it up  

[Rob Babcock]

I hope you kept your copy of The Encyclopedia Metallicus for just such an occasion!

[SET Man]

Hey guys!

  Wow! this post is getting out of control!   Anyway, MCA here is my $0.02... do your best to audition the system that YOU think would fit your need. Go listen with open mind and ear of cause, take your time and you will find what you need. Other people could only give you clues but not a complete answer.

  Right now I'm very happy with my system.. SET with my own DIY Single driver... well with a super horn tweeter on top in my small room (about 15'x9'x8'h)    I'm very luck to be living in NYC and I found what I was looking for in 2001 at the Stereophile show in NYC when I first head the Single driver speaker there  at the show... the TL Acustiq(?) with 8" AER driver.

  Well, good luck on your quest. I'm not really in to 70's, 80' rocks much but if you ever find yourself in NYC you are welcome to audition my SET + Single driver system.

Good luck,
Buddy

[mca]

I hope you kept your copy of The Encyclopedia Metallicus for just such an occasion!

Of course! That disk get heavy rotation in my car