PC Audio Card

Bingenito · « **on:** 26 Jun 2005, 04:42 pm »

I have a good amount of exp. building PCs and have been considering building an all out assault Audio PC with a digital out to a DAC.

If money was not an issue what components would be best?

Sound card with digital out
CD ROM transport
Power Supply (s)
Quiet Fan for CPU
Hard Drives
Board
CPU

What software is best for ripping and playback?

What OS is best for this application?

Thank you

Bryan

brj · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 05:16 pm »

Do you care about case size or aethetics?

There are two cases I know of that require no fans in the system of any kind (including the power supply). The manufactures are Zalman and Silentmaxx, and both products are made of Alumnimum with both sides essentially forming huge heatsinks, to which heatpipes for the processors and video card are connected. The only mechanical device left in the system is the hard drive, and those are enclosed and damped. If you wanted to go a step further, get a solid state disk (essentially a Flash drive) for at least your system disk.

I've been thinking about this myself, but the cases are large and in the tower form factor. There are several cases out there in a more traditional audio component form factor, but they will still require some fan based cooling.

Bingenito · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 05:27 pm »

The case is not really a concern. There is a PC wholesaler near me that offers cases that do not require fans that would work for me.

I am more interested in the other items I mentioned in my post. Any insite?

audioengr · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 05:29 pm »

PC Cards are inferior to external converters with their own power supplies. The PC power is quite noisy and should be avoided.

Bingenito · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 05:29 pm »

Here is a link to the vendor I am referring to

http://www.vitalitycomputer.com/tower.html

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 05:31 pm »

For hard drives I was thinking about Networked Accessed Storage (NAS).

This could have a few advantages:

1. Running in a RAID config can protect your files.
2. You can put the noisy disks in another room.

Here is an actual product that has recieved good reviews and is relatively cheap:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Buffalo_TeraStation_NAS_1TB/4505-3382_7-31299300.html

George

Bingenito · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 05:32 pm »

Quote

PC Cards are inferior to external converters with their own power supplies. The PC power is quite noisy and should be avoided.

School me on this? I thought I was going down the right path using an external DAC.

Looking for recommendations so that I do not have to go through trial and error.

Bingenito · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 05:40 pm »

Quote

For hard drives I was thinking about Networked Accessed Storage (NAS).

This could have a few advantages:

1. Running in a RAID config can protect your files.
2. You can put the noisy disks in another room.

I would implement NAS but my living room would have to be wireless and I do not want to go there with audio. I prefer wired direct to a DAC.

If the sound of the PC and DAC betters my Sim Eclipse LE I would take it the extra step and setup a RAID config.

In my orginal post I am looking for specific direction (i.e. what works, what does not work and what brands are best)

Carlman · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 06:08 pm »

Quote from: Bingenito

Quote
PC Cards are inferior to external converters with their own power supplies. The PC power is quite noisy and should be avoided.

School me on this? I thought I was going down the right path using an external DAC.

Looking for recommendations so that I do not have to go through trial and error.

I think what AudioEngr was saying was that a DAC is better than a soundcard... and that the inside of PC is a 'noisy' power environment.

If you get an Asus deluxe motherboard w/ digital out native to the board, and go straight to a DAC, you can save money and not buy a soundcard. If you're going to use the soundcard as a DAC, the best I've heard is a Lynx LM-22. I've heard and seen much of this experimentation on a guy named 'Hantra's' rig... if you do search on his name, you'll find some good info.

I'm using an HTPC case that I can't remember the name... was great in its day but still needed Dynamat, CPU fan, etc.

I'd say everything else on your list is equally important. You'll need a quiet CPU fan, quiet PS, quiet hard drives. (Seagate Barracuda's are good)

I'd suggest you buy what you think will work and then go from there. It'll be very good and you'll likely be very happy..... and can always improve upon it as you learn what works for you.

Bingenito · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 06:18 pm »

Quote

I think what AudioEngr was saying was that a DAC is better than a soundcard... and that the inside of PC is a 'noisy' power environment.

If you get an Asus deluxe motherboard w/ digital out native to the board, and go straight to a DAC, you can save money and not buy a soundcard. If you're going to use the soundcard as a DAC, the best I've heard is a Lynx LM-22. I've heard and seen much of this experimentation on a guy named 'Hantra's' rig... if you do search on his name, you'll find some good info.

If I was to build an audio PC I would use a Blue Circle 501 DAC. If the Asus digital out is as good as a stand alone digital sound card that might be the way to go.

Thank you for the fast responses please keep the details coming.[/code]

brj · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 06:27 pm »

Quote from: Bingenito

The case is not really a concern. There is a PC wholesaler near me that offers cases that do not require fans that would work for me.

Just be aware that many "silent" cases use a 20dB to 40dB definition of the word "silent". They may eliminate a case fan, but not the power supply fan, processor fan or video card fan.

As for hard drives, a flash drive is silent, and beyond after that the Seagate Barracuda or Samsung Spinpoint drives were still the king of the acoustical heap the last time I checked.

A good first look at making a quiet PC: SilentPC Review

Quote from: Bingenito

I am more interested in the other items I mentioned in my post. Any insite?

I don't know what your computing preferences are, but my personal research has focused on making a Linux driven media PC using a cheap audio card with bit-perfect digital output. I'm expecting to hit a few roadbumps along the way, but the flexibility will be exceptional. I'll even be able to do digital room correction by going this way.

Bingenito · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 08:02 pm »

It looks like silent power supplies and CPU fans are readily available.

All Aluminum cases are easy to come by as well.

Power Supply:
http://store.yahoo.com/vitalitycomputer/cofa48posu.html

CPU fan:
http://store.yahoo.com/vitalitycomputer/comahy6picpu.html

Asus boards have coax digital out and as someone mentioned a few Seagate drives would not hurt. I totaled this out at under $1300 with over 1 GB of memory and a decent CPU.

One of the remaining questions is still is there a better sound card then the digital out on the Asus board?

Anything with AES/EBU or BNC outputs?

dave_c · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 09:01 pm »

Audio PC's do not require a lot of computing power. Playback is not too CPU intensive even with software upsampling engaged. You could get a great deal on older Athlon XP - Mobo combo's. Athlon XP, especially the mobile version, use less power and run cooler than Pentium 4's. That allows you to keep your cooling needs to a minimum and reduce the amount of fans you have in your case.

To keep things quiet, here's what I recommend:

CPU Heat Sink - Thermalright XP90c (for Socket A) or XP120 (for A64) http://www.thermalright.com
Alternative - Zalmann CNPS7700 or CNPS7000 http://www.zalmanusa.com
Fans - SilenX iXtrema Series http://www.silenx.com
PSU - Silverstone ST30NF 300 watt Fanless PSU http://www.silverstonetek.com

Hardware suggestions:

CPU - Athlon XP2500+ Mobile (Overclocked to XP2900)
Board - Abit NF7-S
RAM - 2 x 512 PC3200
HD - Seagate Barracuda 7200

Audio:

Empirical Audio Offramp USB to SPDIF
Exact Audio Copy for Ripping
Foobar 2K or WinAmp 3.0 for playback
ASIO4ALL driver if necessary

dave_c · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 09:04 pm »

BTW - I believe that digital outs on motherboards do not output 16 / 44.1, but 16/48. They are usually tied to the windows kmixer which resamples all digital to microsoft standard 16/48.

Go with a EMU 0404 if you want to get digital out off of a soundcard. I think that the USB to SPDIF adapters available are better. Especially if you can get them battery powered.

Bingenito · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Jun 2005, 11:01 pm »

Great info dave_c!

Looks like the Empirical Audio Offramp Turbo USB to SPDIF is the way to go along with the CPU heat sink and power supply that you recommended. That combo with a first rate DAC would be fun to compare to some top shelf Player/ DAC combos.

The Empirical Audio site also has a nice page dedicated to PC Audio that addresses most of the questions I asked in my first post.