[Porcupine]

Does VMPS have white paper specifications for its ribbon drivers and/or entire speakers for consumers to look at?

I'm a relative newbie to hifi audio, but in the past I've always relied heavily upon internet research and white paper specifications, frequency response curves, etc in my search for the next speaker upgrade.

Just recently I briefly auditioned a pair of Aurum Cantus Leisure 3 SE speakers and they sounded pretty good but I couldn't tell if they were great or not in a limited time with unfamiliar recordings. When I went home I learned about the great freq response specs (up to 40 kHz) of their true aluminum ribbon tweeters, but when I saw the white paper frequency response there were huge -4 dB dips in freq response in the entire 15 kHz to 20 kHz range, which is the most critical for CD audio (20 kHz and above being irrelevant for ordinary CDs) and so I decided not to purchase them. Instead I went with Bohlender-Graebener Z-series speakers, even though their magnetic planar ribbon tweeters only go up to 30 kHz or so, because their white papers revealed a flatter frequency response in my opinion.

Specs are important to me because I have limited capability to audition hifi speakers in the stores. I'm limited to what I can find, and I doubt I can find VMPS in Hawaii. And I haven't listened to enough different types of speakers in my life to make careful judgements of everything. The philosophy of "just listen and if it sounds good to you, buy it" has its limitations I think.

When I heard Aurum Cantus they sounded alright but in 20 minutes I could not be sure if they were any better than what I had before. When I heard much more expensive B&W Nautilus 800-series speakers (I didn't know what they were at the time) I said to the guy "these sound like crap" and that didn't go well with them. ^_^; But when I research specifications and papers well I've found that I always get exactly what I expect, or more.

[warnerwh]

If you do enough research you'll find speakers and their specifications cannot be correlated.  Two speakers with different designs measuring identically will sound different, quite a bit different in some cases.  Your best bet is reviews and word of mouth.  I'd never try to get any idea of what a speaker sounds like through measurements.  Asking others if you can't hear them personally and try to figure out what the people mean when they describe the sound.

You're right, for the money B&W speakers are waayyy over priced. Then again they spend a ton of money on advertising too.  You're going to find Vmps speakers of the very best for the money and even the smallest model, the 626R, not easily embarrassed by anything made.  Good luck on your speaker search.

[_scotty_]

Porcupine, if possible you need to do side by side comparsions between the loudspeakers you are interested in.  You cannot compare graphs between two different drivers or loudspeaker systems because small differences in measurement techniques used will result in very large differences the measurements values and very different looking graphs.  In the simplest terms you cannot hear a graph. In the case of the Aurum Cantus speaker you may have made a decision based on inadequate information and thereby missed out on superior performance.  There is no substitute for hearing the loudspeaker you are interested in with your own equipement in your home.
 Scotty

[Porcupine]

> If you do enough research you'll find speakers and their specifications cannot be correlated.

And I believe that if you do even more research, to the point where you know every tiny specification of a speaker and every graph possible pertaining to any of its attributes, you will be able to imagine exactly how it sounds. But that's not possible in reality. But it is still helpful to research out as much specifications as possible, *if you know the limits of what those specs mean*, and make the best judgement based on what limited info you know.

> Two speakers with different designs measuring identically will sound different, quite a bit different in some cases.

If two speakers sound different in *any way*, SOME type of measurement will be able to find the difference.

> Your best bet is reviews and word of mouth.

I do consider reviews and word of mouth very carefully, however my tastes in music are very different from other peoples'. What others consider important I may consider irrelevant,  and vice versa. Why is B&W such a highly regarded (though overpriced) speaker line, while I thought they sounded awful? It's personal taste, and in my personal tastes happen to be different from anyone else's I have ever met. And like I said, auditioning certain speakers is sometimes impossible.

> try to figure out what the people mean when they describe the sound.

I hate trying to figure out what other people,  such as audiophiles, mean when they try to describe the sound. Words and feelings do not go over well with me. Numbers and statistics do. I do realize that it is practically impossible to quantify a speaker by numbers alone however numbers do help, and for me they help more than by listening to other people's feelings. That being said I do still read every review I can find when I'm looking at a product.

> Porcupine, if possible you need to do side by side comparsions between the loudspeakers you are interested in.  There is no substitute for hearing the loudspeaker you are interested in with your own equipement in your home.

I *totally* agree. However such things are not possible for me. The store owner was a really nice guy but I doubt he'd let me borrow his Aurum Cantus speakers to take home. ^_^; I doubt I can even find an VMPS speaker in Hawaii let alone audition one, etc. In general I think what people keep suggesting is just not possible for the general populace. Maybe hifi audiophiles with connections can get to go around, find and audition everything they want. But what about a random college student like me? Unlikely.

[John Casler]

Hi Porcupine,

Scotty is offering you sage advice.  The graph and specs you see on a piece of paper will not tell you what a speaker will sound like in your room and system.

And as you say even the words of a reviewer cannot "really" tell you the whole story.

All specs are basic performance parameters that give us an "idea" what the speaker or a driver is capable of on "specific" tones and signals.

I am not saying specs (for speakers) are not relevant, but it is certain that they only should offer a spacious guidline to get you started.

Reproducing dynamic music in a system and room is "far" different than sticking a mic beside a driver and playing test tones.

There is far more involved in driver, cabinet, x-over, system, and room interaction to allow us to make decisions based on measurments.

It is kind of like trying to tell what you are seeing, hearing, or thinking, by examining your measurable brain waves.  It cannot be done.

That said, to answer your question "No there are no white papers on VMPS specs or perfromance.  All of the drivers are selected and built to Brian's specs so that he can get a speaker to sound the way "he" wants it too.

Some are totally custom made, and others are modded to work the way B, wants them to.  The "melding" of drivers and x-overs to acheive the best sound is an art, and you are buying "sonic artistry" when you purchase a designer speaker.

Audiophilia has a tendency to "attract" those with a penchant for subtlties.

This can be in the form of subjective or objective (or a combination) realization of what "makes" the "RIGHT" sound.

In the end, the real choice should not be what someone tells you measures "flat as a ruler", or what someone tells you "sounds like real life".  

It should be what is pleasing and enjoyable to your ears and performance goals.

Most VMPS owners, have a tendency to appreciate, qualities such as detail, resolution, dynamics, cohesivness, soundstage, imaging, deep detailed bass, smooth and real mids, extended clear highs, and a sense of accuracy overall.

These are the subjective qualities many find in the VMPS line.

So while you can measure the colors red, yellow, blue and green they cannot be measured in a sunset, that changes from moment to moment.

VMPS can help you present a sonic pallette of dynamic and incredible music, and as a bonus, they have an adjustability to them, that can allow those who like to "tweak", an opportunity to walk even closer to the edge of their exact sound.

[Porcupine]

> Scotty is offering you sage advice. The graph and specs...like trying to tell what you are seeing, hearing, or thinking, by examining your measurable brain waves. It cannot be done.

Agree 100% with everything you said.

I look for all information possible when looking at a speaker. I read all the reviews I can and I find all the specs I can, and try to evaluate that limited information for what it is worth. And of course I will try to listen to the speaker if possible, by far the best option.

> That said, to answer your question "No there are no white papers on VMPS specs or perfromance. All of the drivers are selected and built to Brian's specs so that he can get a speaker to sound the way "he" wants it too.

I see. That is fine with me, especially if I hear it said bluntly like that. Hearing explanations of design philosophies, etc is fine for me, white papers or not, measurements or not. The design philosophy is the main thing to me.

No white papers even for the raw drivers though? Not even from the OEM companies that manufacture them?

> The "melding" of drivers and x-overs to acheive the best sound is an art, and you are buying "sonic artistry" when you purchase a designer speaker.

Yes I agree.

> In the end, the real choice should not be what someone tells you measures "flat as a ruler", or what someone tells you "sounds like real life".

Yes, if I look at freq response curves (which is only a small part of what makes a good/bad speaker) I don't necessarily look for flatness. I won't mind +/-12 db spikes or imbalances as long as they are in a way I think I would like.

> It should be what is pleasing and enjoyable to your ears and performance goals.

Agree.

Thanks very much for your info.

[Campindog]

Not everything you read in a white paper is truth