Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...

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Eduardo AAVM

Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« on: 19 Jun 2005, 11:42 pm »
I turned on my TV and I didn't believe what a strange situation, just 6 cars going around the circuit, I am sure it was a very dissapointing situation, almost one can say it was a fraud for attendants.


USA Grand Prix: Just 6 competitors...

alex_odyssey_sg

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Re: Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"
« Reply #1 on: 20 Jun 2005, 09:41 am »
Quote from: Eduardo AAVM
I turned on my TV and I didn't believe what a strange situation, just 6 cars going around the circuit, I am sure it was a very dissapointing situations almost one can say a fraud for attendants.

USA Grand Prix: Just 6 competitors...


Ya boy... I'm an F1 fan and have never seen a 'race' like that. The challenge for the drivers is just to finish the race. Well... at least Michellin is doing the right thing to advise teams to withdraw. Drivers' safety must be top priority (or at least that's the way I see it, hidden agenda aside).

amartincool

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« Reply #2 on: 20 Jun 2005, 12:15 pm »
Exactly
What a Shame.

Fernando Alonso have done a lot for F1 in Spain, I was ready to see the match between him, and Raikkonen and Schumacher,

US people does not watch F1 too much, but from now on...perhaps this sport is dead in the USA.

rosconey

Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #3 on: 20 Jun 2005, 12:25 pm »
the best racing in america is dirt racing-smal tracks 3/8 mile up to 1 mile ,round ,d shape and ovals-the stuff in the northeast is the best-
big block open wheel cars

nothing compares- :mrgreen: they may force nascar on the dumb people but real race fans know what kicks assphalts butt :mrgreen:

http://64.234.226.69/index2.html

a new company bought out the local ownership and moved it to colorado  they  have screwed things up real bad, there is a new local circut but i dont know the name-
this will give you some idea

Carlos Villegas

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Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #4 on: 20 Jun 2005, 01:49 pm »
Hello guys,

A real shame !!! This probably will kill the project for a new F1 Grand Prix in US (Las Vegas).

Regards

Carlos

Eduardo AAVM

Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #5 on: 20 Jun 2005, 02:59 pm »
Hi carlos, nice to read you here...

Indeed this will harm seriously F1 development in USA...

But it was a tough situation doing something for Michelin would be innequitative for Bridgestone I guess...

Maybe if they cancel the event and later find a better solution it should be a better option...

Carlos Villegas

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Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #6 on: 20 Jun 2005, 08:18 pm »
Hi Eduardo, nice to read you here too....

I think Michelin and its partner teams were ridiculous. They wanted a chicane to reduce the turn 13 speed, because they had a lot of bad tires !!! All this year, Ferrari has suffer a loss of grip with its Bridgstone tires and never suggested a chicane to reduce the speed of any circuit.

The FIA position is clear:

In a strongly worded statement, the sport’s governing body said that adding a chicane to the Indianapolis track – as requested by Michelin – was never a realistic option.

The FIA instead suggested to Michelin that their cars should voluntarily drive through the crucial Turn 13 at a reduced speed.

“We were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner,” the statement read.

“We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess.

However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules.

“The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down.

“The Michelin teams' lack of speed through Turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula 1.”

The FIA categorically dismissed the chicane option advocated by the Michelin teams.

“A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed to very slow and twisting,” said the FIA statement.

“It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes.

“It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.”

Although the statement made no specific reference to possible penalties, it was heavily critical of Michelin’s conduct.

“(F1’s rules) cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race,” it read.

“The FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that ‘tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances’.

“Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable.

“Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis.

“Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in Turn 13.

“The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race.

“As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.”


Regards

Carlos

Whitese

Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #7 on: 20 Jun 2005, 10:23 pm »
I agree 100% with the FIA...its never a good precedent for anyone to cater the rules to someone's misfortune...otheriwse its like the NBA, where the rules change depending on how good your are for the NBA.

Michelin should have raced and slowed down if necessary at that turn and sucked it up...But they obviously didnt want to suffer long drawn out humiliation on worldwide TV, so they just screwed themselves in one painful shot instead...

To me, they did what they did, and its ok,,,but I would say that I wouldnt buy a Micheling tire now...too many options to replace them with.

and their lack of preparedness should be penalized.

Eduardo AAVM

Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #8 on: 20 Jun 2005, 10:28 pm »
Personally I agree with you it was Michellin's fault and if any legal claims rise upon events it is  Michellin and it's supporters should be penalized.

amartincool

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« Reply #9 on: 21 Jun 2005, 06:22 am »
Yes, I agree too.

Imagine NBA, if one team hava  lost the shoes and want the oponent playing without shoes too.

If all the cars would have had Michelin, all the cars would have participated.


I believe the penalty has to be applied on the teams more than Michelin,

what can happens tomorrow if Bridgeston says theis tires are unsafe??

Ferrari will do the same , there are no peanlty for the team, just forthe tires Company.

Whitese

Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #10 on: 21 Jun 2005, 11:12 am »
Well according the NBA standards, if it was Jordan who forgot his shoes, they would reschedule the game, or everyone plays in flip flops...

alex_odyssey_sg

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Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #11 on: 22 Jun 2005, 06:29 am »
So next GP... Bridgestone teams come in bicyles (with Bridgestone tyres, of course!). Maybe FIA can change the rules and everyone to have a bike race instead! That'll be quite a sight!

Oh...Of course, Ferrari will have Lance Armstrong as their Number 1 'driver'...  :lol:

Mike Dzurko

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Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #12 on: 22 Jun 2005, 01:16 pm »
My sons drove about 10 hours each way to see the race. They had such high expectations . . . they still had fun but they said that there was tremendous anger among the spectators, many of them had traveled LONG distances from all over the U.S. and the world . . . not a good way to build the sport.

Eduardo AAVM

Off Topic: Were you there Klaus ? What a "race"...
« Reply #13 on: 29 Jun 2005, 02:22 pm »
Follow up: The legal front:

Michelin teams guilty on two charges
Wed Jun 29, 2005 02:36 PM BST
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PARIS, June 29 (Reuters) - The seven teams using Michelin tyres who failed to start the U.S. Grand Prix at Indianapolis earlier this month were found guilty by the FIA on two of five charges they faced at a hearing on Wednesday.
They were cleared of the other three. The FIA said they had decided to adjourn discussion of any penalties until an extraordinary meeting on September 14.

The teams were found guilty of failing to ensure they were in possession of suitable tyres for the June 19 grand prix but with strong mitigating circumstances.

The seven -- championship leaders Renault, McLaren, Williams, Toyota, Red Bull, Sauber and BAR -- were also found guilty by the world governing body of wrongfully refusing to allow their cars to start the race.

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.