Tripath ? What improvements hath your tubed pre's wrought?

toxteth ogrady · « **on:** 14 Jun 2005, 11:23 pm »

Those of you using tubed pre's with your tripath based amps... I'm curious to hear what sort of changes/improvements you've experienced upon adding tubes to the mix. I'm trying to remedy a problem that at least from what I've read seems to be a fairly common complaint about tripath amps... less harmonically rich and a smaller less precise soundstage.

What my modified tripath does well, it does better than many tubed and solid state amps I've heard... tonality and astounding clarity with absolutely no listener fatigue whatsoever. I've become thoroughy addicted to the way this amp extracts the details without fatigue, so a high quality tubed pre seems to be the next logical step to get the harmonic richness and space I'm craving without polluting the signal.

I'd like to hear your comments/ experiences with tubed pre's married to tripath amps... also, if anyone has tried a transformer based pre like the Bent or Django with their tripath amp please post your comments... I have a gut feeling they would sound fantastic together.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Jun 2005, 11:45 pm »

I had a fellow AC member here build me a Hagerman Clarinet tube pre, and here is what I had to say about it, with the modded Bolder Teac.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=16959

In short, I found that it added texture, emotion, and depth to the presentation.

I have since changed much of my system, and might be looking to sell it, not because it doesn't do great things, but because I am taking an entirely new direction in my system, and simply paring down the gear.

Drop me a PM for details, if interested.

I recall that several others have liked tubed pre's also, with the clarity that tripath amps can bring.

Tubo · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 12:00 am »

I listened to a stock Teac without a preamp and with a tubed Conrad Johnson PV11. In both cases I had the Teac pots maxed out to take them out of the loop as much as possible. The CJ gave the sound a bit more body, although I have to say the overall character was provided by the Teac, i.e. very detailed, transparent, no noise, precise imaging, a bit tipped up. I cannot say the soundstage was deeper or wider, but overall sound is beguiling. Output of the Teac was on the low side, but it gave me a wider range in my CJ volume control. I am sending it in for Red Wine Audio treatment!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 12:19 am »

toxteth ogrady :

Quote

I'd like to hear your comments/ experiences with tubed pre's married to tripath amps... also, if anyone has tried a transformer based pre like the Bent or Django with their tripath amp please post your comments... I have a gut feeling they would sound fantastic together.

[/list:u]

toxteth ogrady · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 12:27 am »

Good info... thanks guys.

Lonewolf, please post your impressions when you get the Bent in the mix. Might be another option... I got a good feeling.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 12:36 am »

Quote from: toxteth ogrady

Good info... thanks guys.

Lonewolf, please post your impressions when you get the Bent in the mix. Might be another option... I got a good feeling.

Will do...it will only be here for a day...then its off on a trip south....

Gordy · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 01:21 am »

Hi TO,

I've a Django mated to a UcD amp, does that count? An absolutely wonderful combination IMHO. I also spent a week or so with Lonewolf's Bent about 3 mos. ago. Virtually identical to me, unless you plan to drive a second amp, then the Bent NOH really is a better match. Both the transformer amps are like hot rodding your source to the amp, but without any of the potential drawbacks.

I've also spent time driving the UcD's with tubes, a Response Audio moded Ming Da and the Mod Wright 9.0 SE. Both are an excellent combo, but the MW is simply the best active pre I've ever heard and a really tough call between it and the tranny pre's. Either way, it's a superb match up... HTH!

miklorsmith · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 02:20 pm »

I've got the Modwright SLW 9.0 SE and am using with two different Clari-T's and a stock (not for long) Teac. I thought the stock Clari-T was great straight from the source until I tried the pre in front of it. More nuance, body, and emotion. Can't comment on soundstage or imaging, as the system was not oriented that direction.

I think it has a lot to do with the match between the source and amp. If they happen to be a great match, the pre may not add much to the mix. However, my expectation is that this is the minority of pairings.

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 02:35 pm »

Kian,

Since my Shanling CDP (Mod I) has a tube output stage and built-in volume control, I don't have to worry about a tube preamp. My Decware ZSLA1 line stage was very good when pairing with ModWright Sony 9000ES but not a good match with the Shanling. If I look for such a tube preamp to match the ClariT, the Decware ZTPRE would be on the top of my short list.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 02:54 pm »

Quote from: miklorsmith

I think it has a lot to do with the match between the source and amp. If they happen to be a great match, the pre may not add much to the mix. However, my expectation is that this is the minority of pairings.
.

I agree 100%.

If your source sounds really good and has no problems driving a passive preamp, the tube preamp is only going to add noise and coloration the signal.

I recently built a battery powered DACT Line Stage for a fellow AC member, and that is one active preamp that is super clean and barely adds a sonic signature of its own...very nice!

Still, there are many who prefer what tubes add to the signal before amplification, and that is fine too...

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 04:48 pm »

[/quote]
I recently built a battery powered DACT Line Stage for a fellow AC member, and that is one active preamp that is super clean and barely adds a sonic signature of its own...very nice!

[/quote]

...Then please consider my pre-order: a battery transport + a Monica II DAC + the above B/P DACT line stage.

Thanks.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 05:16 pm »

Quote from: Paul_Bui

...Then please consider my pre-order: a battery transport + a Monica II DAC + the above B/P DACT line stage.

Thanks.

Hi Paul,

You got it! The transport will be its own unit, but the battery powered Monica II and DACT line stage can be all in one enclosure...

Email me or post on the Red Wine Circle about this one

Thanks,

tianguis · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Jun 2005, 05:47 pm »

All:
I've spent hundreds of hours listening to my modded T-Amp both with and without a pre-amp. After several hundred hours, the bother of switching sources in and out led me to put my modded Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid pre into the loop. While it did color the sound a bit, it gave the presentation more body and space.
Lately, I've built several Felicia power conditioners (see "The Lab") for the GG pre and a CD-Pro2m. The Felicia has taken the GG to a new level. I've never had the level of detail, precision, dynamics and frequency extension in my system, even running the modded T-Amp directly from a source.

Regards,
Larry Welsh

KT · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Jun 2005, 01:35 pm »

I listened to slightly modified SI amp in my system with a SLA driving it. While it sounded really quite good with a lot of promise, I never got around to really dialing it in before I started listening to something else.

As good as the sound was, however, I still craved that shimmering, breathing, warm-but-clear feeling that a good tube pre provides. Since my tube preamp has been out of commission for sometime, however, I never did mate it with the Tripath.

BUT, the ultra-clear sound of the SI reminds me somewhat of the clean and musical presentation of the 47 Labs Gaincard (SI is somewhat warmer but less controlled, though). I used the Gaincard with a Cary SLP-94 12au7 preamp (before the pre pooped out), and it improved the system immesurably. I cannot listen to the Gaincard by itself anymore without feeling that it's just a bit on the clinical side. The tube pre/Gaincard combination was, at times, magical. Bloom and warmth galore, but still with the detail retrieval and quickness of the Gaincard. Nice.

I don't know the technical particulars of the SI, but I can only imagine that a good tube pre might be the ticket to kicking the Tripath amps to the "listen to the music and you won't even worry about the system anymore" level.

Just a feeling, though. I haven't tried it.

Best,
KT

lcrim · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Jun 2005, 03:54 pm »

I first bought the TEAC roughly a year ago and the only preamp I owned at that point was the AES AE-3, a tube pre from Cary's inexpensive line that utilizes the 6SN7 tube. I had the Sony digital receiver 3000ES at the time and used the pre amp outs from the Sony to control the TEAC. I immediately noticed how much better the TEAC controlled my speakers than the Sony and the Sony wasn't a piece of crap but it was rated @ 150 watts per and I was dumbfounded. How could the little TEAC 30 watt unit exhibit such control and extension? I had the AES pre upstairs in a system w/ a Decware Select (which can be used on its own since it has a built in gain control.) I found Mark from Canada's thread on the TEAC and tried pulling the center amp board and the potentiometer riser and added a new power chord on the TEAC. The AES pre was added and I was pretty smug about the quality of the sound I was getting.
Over the last year I have learned some things that convinced me that pure dumb luck was at work.
I eventually sent the TEAC to Vinnie for modding. This was before Redwine and the battery thing. He did his usual highly skilled, professional best and returned me a much improved unit that retained the dreaded switch-mode power supply. I added a Transcendent Sound Balanced Power transformer kit to that system and the jump in performance was just jaw dropping. Wayne at Bolder made me a power filter to isolate the power supply of the TEAC and its noise from other devices and get more utility from the balanced power transformer.
One of the 6 moons reviewers had problems running the Tripath based Clari-T with a 6SN7 based preamp due to noise. My AES pre adds 20 dB nominal gain and I have never found it noisy. Perhaps 20dB is an acceptably low amount but I use this system w/ vinyl including a tubed phono pre and then there is a lot of tubed gain involved and it is just very open and expansive but not noisy.
Apparently a nominal speaker load of 6 ohms is optimal for the TEAC according to a poster on this forum. Turns out my speakers are a 6 ohm load @ an 88 dB sensitivity and the TEAC drives them beatifully. I've often thought of selling them off in favor of a single driver config like the Omega line but something has always stopped me.
I guess you have to be careful how much gain you add with a pre, Srajan did a follow up on the Clar-t that touches on this point. Since I've never realized that the tube pre was adding the depth and texture I had assumed it was part of the Tripath signature. Anyway, I think Tripath and tubes are a great combination when you're either lucky like I was or you do the calculations properly like the 6 moons publisher.