[Al Garay]

I first heard the LCR 3-way kit at Adire's listening room and then I borrowed three of them to audition at my house. Soon after I ordered 3 kits plus one more for Andy's whose impressions will follow.

Here are my general impressions.

Strengths:
* incredible dynamics, very fast from soft-low to very high SPLs with no breaking up
* low-end extends down to low 20s with good SLAM, not loose (depending on room and amplifier). There was no need for sub to hear bass for movies.
* midrange clarity was almost as good as Seas Excel driver. Plenty transperant for dialogue.
* surprisingly wide and deep imaging even with LCR mounted vertically with my big entertainment center in between. The imaging really surprised friends who came by to listen.
* scale of soundstage is bigger so orchestra sounds large as opposed to coming from a small bookshelf speaker. This might be too large for some folks
* overall balance from top to bottom. I prefer a good 3-way compared to integrating a 2-way with a sub. Even really good active crossovers don't have the transperancy of the well executed passive ... IMHO.

weaknesses
* Depending on room dampening, treatments, etc, the tweeter can seem a bit hot. The Usher was smooth in Adire's room but a bit more pronounced in my room. We had different sources as well. I'm going to try room treatment and possibly add a 1 ohm resistor in series if it sounds brighter than I want... not quite done building them
* Physical appearance. The standard cabinet is very tall and square looking. May not be attractive enough for some. We're adjusting the dimensions slightly (within the range recommended by Dan Wiggins) to smooth out the appearance and make it more symmetrical.


This is a 1st iteration design and it works very well. It should improve as the design matures. I consider the price a very good value for the ability to do home theater extremely well without the need for a sub (simplification) and yet still provide a good/vg musical experience in 2-channel stereo.

I must also add that dealing with Adire has been extremely positive. Dan is very knowledgable (a real engineer who does his own designs and some for very high-end systems that I was not aware of) and has gone out of his way to help answer my zillion questions. Visiting their shop and listening to their systems, completely changed my opinion as I would not have put them in the same group with Phil Bamberg (BESL)who I also really like. But I did. It's an appealing solution.

I cannot wait to have the three LCRs finished. Then I'll write a full report.

Al

[Al Garay]

Here is the feedback from Andy McIntyre from a demo session we had at my house back on April 29-30th.

For point of reference, Andy has among his systems:
* Eton 11.2 3-way kit that is very close clone of Avalon Ascent. He has two pairs of these. One of the best 3-ways, I've heard
* Ellis Audio 1801b
* JonMarsh M8a 2-way
* MurphyBlaster SPCA 2-way
* In process of building SL Orion (which may become his new 2-channel reference)

This is what he said about the LCR speakers.

// Start of Andy McIntyre's (awm) feedback from April 29th and 30th sessions

I listened to the new Adire LCR's last night and this morning at Al Garay's
place. Last night, we watched and listened to DVD's through Al's Oppo DVD
player. We also had the smaller kit (the something 61's?) as the rear
surrounds in the 5.1 set-up. The Adire Sadhara was doing sub duties -- more
on that later.

We watched Independence Day and the overall impression for HT was quite
impressive. The bass was incredible without the sub on -- much more than
I'd have ever expected had Al not forewarned me. The LCR's were excellent
as the front three. I was most impressed with the LCR as the center
channel. Dialog was very clear and well separated from the rest of the
sound. I was also pleased to hear so much bass coming from a center
channel. The inroom response of the LCR is in the 20's and this is valuable
due to the large, often overlooked amount of bass coming through the center
channel. Speaking of bass, the sub was almost unnecessary. There was the
pronounced visceral impact of deep bass in spades without it. But, being
the audionuts we are, we of course couldn't leave well enough alone and
turned on the Sadhara and let it rip. During one scene -- maybe when the
two heroes nuke the mother ship -- the whole room sounded close to coming
apart. Thunderous. The overall effect was pretty overwhelming.

This morning, three of us listened to the LCR's in two channel mode, with
the sound going through a modded ART DI/O. For comparison, we listened to
my Ellis 1801b's, a speaker we were all quite familiar with. I was somewhat
skeptical of the two channel performance of the LCR's going in. I'll say
now that I was pleasantly surprised. As mentioned above, they do the bass
thing very well and for just about all 2-channel listening, the mid-20's
that they extend to is more than adequate. They also sounded "bigger," as a
three way should, than the Ellis. But, the imaging was where I was the most
surprised. I was not expecting them to be able to pull off what they did.
Al has a behemoth of an entertainment center right between the speakers ( he
knows, he knows... talk to his loving wife! ), which understandably
interferes with imaging and soundstaging. Still, the LCR's imaged very
effectively and I was easily able to make out a distinct center image and
soundstage.

So, where did they fall short? They lacked the level of focus and
transparency of the Ellis'. And, they are voiced a little bit hot for me.
Al and others like this more than I, and I've discovered that I'm apparently
a high frequency weenie, being sensitive to anything too bright for my
tastes. Overall, though, they could easily serve as a nice two channel
set-up and at the price, they really are a bargain.

Bottom line -- after hearing this set-up, I plan on replacing my current CC
with an LCR in my own 6.1 HT. I will likely have to increase the tweeter
resistance by an ohm or so. I'll probably get a second LCR to serve as my
rear center speaker, as well. (I think one of Adire's vendor's offers a
kit for low $400's, which is quite a bargain.)

See ya,
Andy

[Al Garay]

In addition to Dan Wiggins, I have also been impressed with the service and eagerness to please from Kevin Haskins and Al Wooley. I'm fortunate to have such good folks live close to home.

[Kevin P]

Thank you for the kind words Al.   It's been a pleasure working with you.

The upper end balance is easy to adjust.   Even if your a "high frequency weenie" as Andy puts it, you can tune it to taste.  

[RAW]

As usual Al G great to deal with

Hope all has been well in the mile high.


Al

[Al Garay]

It only got to about 78 degrees today. Was about mid 80s. But I only really know when I go out to lunch. Otherwise, I'm in the office until about 10pm and then back by 8am. Getting lots done.

Now, if someone would buy the MBOW1s....

[klh]

Al,

I'm very interested in getting the LCRs up front and having the 641s as surrounds. My main concern is that my HT will also be where I listen to 2 channel music. It will probably be used 60:40 HT:music, but if the speakers sound great, I'm sure it will be more like 50:50 or even tip more towards music. Dan Wiggins said they are working on a WWMT tower (with the same drivers) that will work as R&L and the LCR would only be used as a CC. I would imagine the imaging would be better with the latter, but Dan thought it wouldn't make much of a difference d/t the steep crossover slopes. Do you think it's worth waiting for the WWMT tower, or would you recommend going with 3 LCRs? In many ways 3 LCRs would be more convenient, but I don't want to sell myself short.

[Al Garay]

HI klh,

I have the same issue, needing to use my main system for both music and HT. And having to compromise with the decorating requirements which places a very large entertainment center (books, pictures and little treasures holder). So, not all the speakers will work well for imaging. Cannot place a large speaker far into the room or it will be too close to the seating area, etc.

The LCRs imaged very well. Where the floorstander and 641 may have an advantage is in the sweet spot. For 2-channel music, the sweet spot of the LCR was narrow horizontally, meaning the image was locked on when seated in the sweet spot, but move 1 foot to left and right and the image moved. Dan and Kevin mentioned that's due to the lobing affect of having the tweeter to the side of the mid (please correct me if I'm off) and may not be an issue if mounting the LCR horizontally. It was not a big deal for me since the sound quality was still very good outside the sweet spot. I was used to extremely good horizontal dispersion with the 1801b speakers but they don't have the dynamics, soundstage scale, low-end attack that the LCRs have.

For DTS music, like watching the Eagles Hell Freezes Over DVD, the LCRs were sensational. I mean my wife and kids stopped what they were doing in the kitchen and came down into the family room and listened all the way through. My wife who gets emotional when watching a good movie, started to shed tears. Same thing the prior night when we watched Independence Day. The impact is much greater through the LCRs than anything else I've tried in my system.

I'm sure the floorstander should work well. I figured that going with the LCRs, I have all the drivers and probably most of the components I need to build the floorstander version, perhaps a few more crossover parts and new cabinets... no big deal right! There is strong motivation to get this redo project done.

hope that helps,

Al

[Kevin P]

Al,

I'm very interested in getting the LCRs up front and having the 641s as surrounds. My main concern is that my HT will also be where I listen to 2 channel music. It will probably be used 60:40 HT:music, but if the speakers sound great, I'm sure it will be more like 50:50 or even tip more towards music. Dan Wiggins said they are working on a WWMT tower (with the same drivers) that will work as R&L and the LCR would only be used as a CC. I would imagine the imaging would be better with the latter, but D ...

Your probably not going to notice going from the LCR to the tower three way unless you compared them A/B.    Even then, I'm not sure that you could nail down the differences from one to the other and draw conclusions based upon the dispersion characteristics.

I think people are overanalyzing the dispersion with the LCR.   It's off-axis response is exceptional.... much better than what most people are coming from.

[Kevin P]

Oh...one more piece of news on the LCR.  

We are going to have PCBs.   There are some people who like P-P wiring so we are making them a $15 option.  If you want them fully populated it's going to be an extra $25/speaker.   Price includes both boards.  

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In addition... we have a new Exodus branded speaker post.   I had these cooked up with some special features.    I'll post some pictures tomorrow but they have setscrews on the inside so no soldering needed.   They are beefy WBT Midline copies that accept both 1/4" & 5/16" spades, bananas, and bare wire.   They are insulated on the outside to prevent shorting.   I had an extra large nut included for the inside (if you ever have tried tightening a pair of post from inside a cabinet you will understand why), extra long for going through up to 1" MDF.    You can also attach the wire to the post from outside the enclosure and then slip them in rather than trying to do all the work from inside the enclosure.     Overall they have just become my favorite new speaker post.   They hit everything on the wish list.

Installing them in the rear of a cabinet requires two drilled holes.   Takes all of 1 minute to prep the speaker cabinet.

We are also going to have finished cabinets for the LCR.   My fabricator hasn't given final pricing yet but I expect them to land somewhere around $150-$175/cabinet in cherry, walnut, black oak or unfinished maple.

With finished cabinets and complete PCBs the only skills required to assemble a speaker will be knowledge of using a screwdriver and crimper.   We call it kit building for the girly man (or the lazy like me).  

[Al Garay]

These PCBs are beautiful. How would you mount them? Are those screw holes in the corners? That would be too much effort. I am using industrial velcro to mount my boards.

New speaker posts I like... Yoda says.

Is this a new source for the cabinets? Could he have a price for unfinished or black?

[Kevin P]

These PCBs are beautiful. How would you mount them? Are those screw holes in the corners? That would be too much effort. I am using industrial velcro to mount my boards.

You got it... screws in each corner.  

New speaker posts I like... Yoda says.

Is this a new source for the cabinets? Could he have a price for unfinished or black?

Our cabinets available fall into two catagories.   Fully custom and the stock cabinets.   With the stock cabinets the finish options are Black Oak (black), cherry, walnut and unfinished maple (which could be stained with an Ebony stain).    Those should come in around $150-$175 each for the LCR.

If you want something custom I'd defer you to Al Wooley.

[klh]

Thanks Al. Having The LCRs up front and 641s in the back seems to be the way to go .

[Al Garay]

That's what I want as well.

[RAW]

LCR CNC baffles with magnetic grills will be instock Friday.
1" MDF pricing will be $39.99 each.
Kevin will have them as well for those ordering kits other than that all RAW Acoustics LCR,KIT61 finished cabinets will come with these CNC baffles and magnetic grills.

KIT61 Baffles and grills 3/4"MDF $32.99 each
Shown below on KIT61 veneered in Maple


[list=]


Al[/list]

[bald]

LCR CNC baffles with magnetic grills will be instock Friday.
1" MDF pricing will be $39.99 each.
Kevin will have them as well for those ordering kits other than that all RAW Acoustics LCR,KIT61 finished cabinets will come with these CNC baffles and magnetic grills.

I have a feeling that the LCR baffles will be for the standard design only and not the front ported plan shown on the acoustic-visions website?

bald

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/speakers/complete_kits/pdf/kitlcrfrontport.pdf

[RAW]

Not standard.
1.5" wider than the plans.
This allows for those of us cabinet builders who wrap veneer around a cabinet to do so.
As well YES the front ported LCR is coming as well.
The next batch will have them in 3 weeks.

Al
 

[bald]

Not standard.
1.5" wider than the plans.
This allows for those of us cabinet builders who wrap veneer around a cabinet to do so.
As well YES the front ported LCR is coming as well.
The next batch will have them in 3 weeks.

Al
 

This is excellent news. And the price of $40ea is not bad, better than the $50 I was expecting. Between this and the prebuilt PCBs, the LCR should take all of about 15 minutes to blue together

bald

[Kevin P]

The pre-cut baffles and grills are REALLY nice.    I wouldn't even consider building one without them.   They take the hardest part, cutting flush mounts & building grills, and offer them done by CNC with perfect cuts.   Once you have built a few cabinets you get an appreciation for how nice this is...

They also reduce the number of tools needed.   Now if you have access to a table saw (or circular saw with guide) you can build your own speaker.   You don't need a router.

The magnets are pretty cool too.   I haven’t stopped playing with my sample since you gave it to me.
 

[bald]

Not standard.
1.5" wider than the plans.
This allows for those of us cabinet builders who wrap veneer around a cabinet to do so.
....

So this question just occurred to me. If the baffle is 1.5" wider, do we adjust the other dimensions to maintain the original enclosure volume, or leave them alone?

If we can change the depth (decreasing to just over 14.5" deep would maintain the original 4690 in^3 volume, vs the 16.75 deep of the original plan) that would actually suit my particular setup.

Anyone (dan, kevin?) comment if either of these would affect the xover/sound, and which route is preferable?

bald