[ChuckF]

Hi, all! I'm here partly to get input (no pun intended...) on a new preamp. Also, simply as I get the sneaking suspicion that as I drone on about stereo gear and my 'challenges' with my system, my wife's 'mm-hmms' and 'yeps' may not be entirely authentic

My Rotel RC-1572mkii went volume crazy the other day and quickly raised itself to max with no input from any remotes, apps, or anything else. I'm lucky my speakers (too expensive for me to replace!) were okay. Now I don't trust the Rotel, especially since I've found others on forums who had similar experiences with a Rotel preamp.

So, I'm in the hunt for a new preamp. I already have a Wiim Pro Plus (use just for streaming). I would like to be able to input my cd player (via rca or coax), Wiim Pro Plus (via optical ideally, or rca less ideally), computer (via USB), and turntable (have phono preamp; both it and turntable are unbalanced). I want a decent volume control knob and digital volume display on the preamp. I am also interested in high-pass filtering my main speakers (pair of Paradigm Founder 80f) to step beyond just the LPF built into the sub (SVS PC-2000 Pro). I don't know that high-passing will make much (or any?) difference, but I'm curious about and interested in it. I currently have Sonarworks SoundID Reference for room correction via my PC so the turntable (which isn't running through the pc of course) doesn't have any room correction. The SoundID provides some noticeable but not dramatic room correction. I have an Audiophonics 2-channel power amp with balanced inputs (I used to run balanced out from the Rotel). Ideally, I would like to stay with a balanced out from the new preamp to the power amp (though again, I doubt this will make a significant difference, maybe not even noticeable??). My system is in our living room, but it's open to the entire first floor, so we're talking 7000+ cubic feet, but the space fills with sound pretty easily (for better and worse; wood floors and lots of windows). Room correction-wise, the target is mainly for the couch in front of the system. If we're in the kitchen, the sounds does what it will and we live with it!

I've been looking pretty hard at the MiniDSP Flex and SHD with Dirac (to use instead of the SoundID Reference). Regarding the SHD, I'm curious how its app-based user interface (Volumio??) compares to Wiim's. The WiiM app seems very well thought out and keeps getting features added. I like the Flex's price, but the SHD's combination of both balanced and SE outputs is tempting. I was down the RME ADI 2 DAC FS rabbit hole for a while, but as it doesn't have analog out or proper bass management, as cool as I think it is, it seems like not the right fit. (Also, I already have a nice standalone headphone amp.) I'm also curious about the Schiit Kara, but I'm torn about no volume display and a power switch on the back rather than front. Also have looked at the Emotiva BasX PT2. It has HPF and LPF knobs on the back and enough inputs/outputs except no balanced output. I don't know Emotiva well enough to gauge if its great price for the preamp is really great, or if there are shortcuts being taken to price it at that. Between the MiniDSP Flex and SHD, and the Emotiva, will the DACs be equivalent from a real life hearing perspective? I'm also curious about the K11 R2R as an external DAC, mainly just as it seems like an inexpensive way to explore R2R DACs. Thanks for any and all thoughts, considerations, and recommendations!

[I.Greyhound Fan]

What is your budget?

[timind]

Used ok?

[Phil A]

Welcome!

[Bodhi]

Welcome to the forum & good luck in your search for a new preamp

[ChuckF]

What is your budget?

Budget is $500-$1000. The closer to $500 the happier the wife, the closer to $1000 the happier I am!

[FullRangeMan]

Some expensive high-quality pre-amps can improve the musical quality of your audio, but usually cheap pre-amps don't. They only serve to adjust the volume and have more RCA inputs.

[ChuckF]

Used ok?

Yep, used is definitely okay. I got the Rotel used (it worked great for a few years so I don't think it being used had anything to do with the volume freak-out it eventually had).

[ChuckF]

Some expensive high-quality pre-amps can improve the musical quality of your audio, but usually cheap pre-amps don't. They only serve to adjust the volume and have more RCA inputs.

Yep, agreed. My struggle is figuring out which ones are which! Price can certainly be a decent indicator, but with so many brands and with technological advances allowing relatively or even incredibly inexpensive DACS and class D amps with great numbers, I struggle to determine what brands or models are most worth their price, whether expensive or inexpensive.

[toocool4]

Welcome to AudioCircle, ChuckF

With a budget of $500 – $1000, I think you may be asking for a bit too much if you’re set on balanced outputs. At that price point, you’re unlikely to find anything that’s truly balanced, so it might end up being a waste of both time and money. You’d be better off looking for something as stripped down as possible, focusing on quality rather than features.

I’d recommend auditioning as many preamps in your price range as you can both the feature-packed ones and the more minimalist designs and then choosing the one that sounds the best to you. My guess is that the simpler models will likely deliver better performance, since the budget is more likely to have gone into quality components instead of extra bells and whistles that don’t help the sound.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

There is a nice Parasound P6 preamp on TMR for a little over 1100.  It is balanced but does not have a digital display for volume.  You are going to be hard pressed to get everything you want
at your price point.

There is also a very nice Gato PRD 3S for sale on Audiogon.com.   it is a Danish company and I have read nothing but good things.  It has everything you want.  It is a little over your price point.


https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisbe81g-gato-audio-prd-3s-solid-state

https://www.fidelity-magazine.com/gato-audio-prd-3s-pwr-222-and-cdd-1/

The Freya F is $999 and uses xlrs  but no readout

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Here is a great deal on the Parasound P6  for 900.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650227280-parasound-p6-stereo-preamplifier-in-black/

[ChuckF]

Welcome to AudioCircle, ChuckF

With a budget of $500 – $1000, I think you may be asking for a bit too much if you’re set on balanced outputs. At that price point, you’re unlikely to find anything that’s truly balanced, so it might end up being a waste of both time and money. You’d be better off looking for something as stripped down as possible, focusing on quality rather than features.

I’d recommend auditioning as many preamps in your price range as you can both the feature-packed ones and the more minimalist designs and then choosing the one that sounds the best to you. My guess is that the simpler models will likely deliver better performance, since the budget is more likely to have gone into quality components instead of extra bells and whistles that don’t help the sound.

Thanks. I guess I'd say I don't feel like I'm too set on balanced outputs. My power amp (Audiophonics MPA-S250NC XLR) has balanced inputs so it seems natural to use them, though right now while I'm in-between primary preamps, I'm just using RCA to balanced cables to connect my little Yamaha WXC-50 to the power amp. Not sure if it's affecting anything. It 'seems' like things sound different since removing the Rotel from the equation, but knowing it's gone has created sound paranoia for me.

[ChuckF]

Here is a great deal on the Parasound P6  for 900.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650227280-parasound-p6-stereo-preamplifier-in-black/

Thanks. I think I had read about the Parasound P6 some time back and liked it, but the new price pushed me away. I just found one pre-owned at a stereo shop near me so will have to go listen to it. That Gato looks amazing though! I can already picture my wife's glare  All some good food for thought.

[KTS]

Welcome ChuckF I have the Emotiva TA1 used it as a pre and a Schiit Freya+ I also built a couple of preamps. The Schiit product is very good especially for its price point. From a sound quality I would recommend the Schiit over the Emotiva, but the Emotiva has more bells and whistles and does sound good.

[FullRangeMan]

Yep, agreed. My struggle is figuring out which ones are which! Price can certainly be a decent indicator, but with so many brands and with technological advances allowing relatively or even incredibly inexpensive DACS and class D amps with great numbers, I struggle to determine what brands or models are most worth their price, whether expensive or inexpensive.

Personally I prefer tube pre-amp with 6SN7 or 12SN7 with copper hard wiring point to point solded, no stranded wiring or PCBs, output OTL or a nanocristaline C core 3mm OPT. This may be expensive.

Some Radu Tarta pre-amps may be great.
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/ux201a.html

[Bob Stark]

Hey Chuck,

I've owned 3 different Audible Illusions preamps and their sound is well above anything remotely near it's price.  I'm betting you don't own a LOMC cartridge as their cost is out of your range.  In that case, The Audible Illusion 2D used will be well under $1000 (like $500-750).  The 3A will run from $1000-1400.  Either unit will be much better on phono than anything your could afford.  The 3A will have a separate CD input, where the 2D will have a typical input used for whatever.  I owned a 2D for over 23 years with zero issues.  They do not have a digital readout and you will have to get up to change the volume, but it's worth it.  Staying with the Audible Illusions tubes will insure that they last a long time and are the best sounding ones you can buy.  I always did that.  I had the 3A w/ John Curl MC phono for about 7 years.  Had a chance to buy a used TRL DUDE then and took it.  I still have it today.  It is one awesome sounding preamp.  The DUDE was a significant jump in sound over the 3A.  But I had to do a few things to make it so.  The Audible Illusion preamps were and are still the best for the money preamps ever built.  Good luck in your quest.

Bob

[ChuckF]

Thanks, KTS and FullRangeMan. I actually just made my first venture into tubes with a used Woo Audio WA6-SE headphone amplifier at a great price. Hadn't really considered a tube preamp. I had looked a lot at Schiit products back when I was initially shopping for my first separate preamp. Read about the Freya S (solid state) and the Freya+(tube). I see now that they've gotten rid of the Freya S and maybe replaced it with the Kara. Both that and the newer Freya+ F have both SE and balanced inputs and outputs. Aside from one being tubes and the other solid state and sound quality/color that may accompany each, any pros/cons/considerations between the two?

[FullRangeMan]

Usually people that have a SolidState or Class D power amp are saying they prefer a tube pre-amp to avoid the cold or analitic sound by add a tube warm taste with an tube pre-amp. IMO

[Jon L]

Staying with the Audible Illusions tubes will insure that they last a long time

LOL.  If I added up all the $$ I wasted on various NOS tubes like Amperex, Mullard that suffered early deaths in my Audible Illusions preamp, I could have bought a little Bitcoin