Exodus 641 Initial Measurments and pics

Kevin P · « **on:** 25 May 2005, 04:45 am »

Just thought I'd post some measurements and pics of the prototype Exodus 641. We are in the process of final voicing of the crossover and expect to have it available within the next 2-3 weeks. We have finished cabinets available so you don't even need to break out the router.

On-axis frequency response is about -+2db from 100Hz-20K. I'll get off-axis measurements later in the week. Low frequency extension should be the same as the Exodus 61, anechoic to the low 30s and in-room response into the low 20s using the Extremis 6.8 in a ported monitor.

Midrange is the WR-125 using the XBL^2 motor technology. Tweeter is the Usher 9950C-15. These speakers have some serious dynamic capability. They just don't compress under power and contrary to the efficiency ratings, will scale with musical transients unlike any direct radiator I've heard.

And the impedance curve. It dips to a low of 4 Ohms at 3K and remains over 6 Ohms from 2K and below. An easy load for even the most pathetic amplifier.

And a pretty face. Cabinets available in black oak, walnut, cherry and maple.

Total price is yet to be determined but we are probably looking at approx. $300/speaker. The finished cabinets are $125 each. Total cost for finishing a pair should come in around $850/pr.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 May 2005, 05:44 pm »

Kevin, this looks to be a killer combo - from my experience with the WR, using it as a dedicated midrange, with proper Xover design and components, and tying it to other great drivers would be fantastic.

The cabinet here looks to be roughly 20x10x12 HxWxD - is that roughly right?

Thanks,

Kevin P · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 May 2005, 09:59 pm »

The cabinet dimensions are 19" (H) x 9.5" (W) x 13" (D).

The WR-125 is great as a midrange. It's easy to use for crossover design because it has such a wide bandwidth without any difficult break-up nodes. That keeps design and crossovers sweet, simple and low cost.

It also has WAY more excursion capability and power handling than a typical midrange. That helps it stay linear under power and lowers distortion. Under power it just has WAY more headroom than your typical midrange. It's not as sensitive as many midrange drivers but it's the bass unit that is setting your overall sensitivity anyway. It only needs to be sensitive enough so that it's not the limiting factor.

It sounds great too.... sweet but not too much so. Detailed yet without an edge. It's simply one of the best midrange drivers I've ever heard from a subjective standpoint.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 May 2005, 11:22 pm »

TKS for the clarification - as I understand it, there might be a set of these at the June 4th event that CSS is putting on in BC, Canada. Unfortunately for me, I live roughly 3500 miles from there... so I will have to rely on reports of how these sounded.

RAW · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 May 2005, 04:43 am »

Yes I do believe there will be a set of these here at the event that RAW ACOUSTICS is holding.Just to clear the air.
CSS is not hosting the event RAW Acoustics is hosting and putting on the event.
The day was to show off the Kits RAW ACOUSTICS has as well as the Kits from Kevin and Bob.

We will have
RAW 1 MT CSS125S and Hifi
RAW 1F Fullrange CSS125S
RAW HT1 MT CSS125S Ribbon
RAW HT2 MTM CSS125ST Ribbon
RAW HT3 Ribbon,CSS125S with side firing Extremis slim floor stander
RAW HT6 Extremis and a OEM G3 series ribbon

RAW HT2TL (MTM T line) may be finished for that day as well.

Kevin was asked to show for the day as Dan was as well.Last I was told Kevin may not make it but Dan is a possible show.Chris may also make the trip with Dan.
Bob will be here as I am sure John Chapman from Bent Audio may be here.As John is nice enough to pack up some very serios front end gear for us to use for the day.

Thanks to everyone who has sent a email confirming they are making the show.

Al Garay · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 May 2005, 05:56 am »

Does John have 5-7 channels of tubes? Hope you use 5 channel UcD amp or your Marantz as well to provide a good point of reference.

I wish I could attend. Don't see it happening. With the time I'm putting in building the LCR cabinets, I'm being careful not to exceed my allocated time to disrupt the "quality time" and "acts of service needs" of spouce.... if you know what I mean.

Al

mcgsxr · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 May 2005, 10:41 am »

Right, sorry, it is a RAW event, attended by CSS - my comment about BC stands though! You guys get it all - the excellent audio distributors/manufaturers/custom cabinet builders, AND the "soft" winters!

Wish I could make it, that list of speakers really looks to be an excellent lineup. I look forward to some feedback, from those able to attend - those extended range WR125's certainly look interesting...

RAW · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 May 2005, 01:20 pm »

No Al the room we are using is the front room not my HT room.
As well as John's small 2 channel setup.

Ya you never know I may just have to get a 6 or 7 channel built up as someone else is

Al
To bad you can not make it.I am going to be firing up the barby as well.

RAW · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 May 2005, 01:28 pm »

That is OK Mark.
I hold a lot of events here to help along the DIY and love to do it.
As well it sure is nice to work along side Dan,Kevin and Bob.
We work on a lot of issues together and that works very well when you have that many people talking about designs,design issues ect.

Should be a good day.

Yes out west got love it.
Took the family for a drive yesterday.Hit WhiteRock first, little one played in the sand walked the beach and we got some very red skin

.
Then a hr drive to Grouse Mountain and went up the gondola sat and looked over Vancouver for the rest of the day.

Kevin P · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 May 2005, 08:24 pm »

Wow!..... Wow!

These are going directly to my listening room. Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200. Directly to the listening room. Yikes these are scary good.

dwk · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 May 2005, 08:46 pm »

Quote from: Kevin P

Yikes these are scary good.

Hey! Stop that!

No time on the slate for these until the Fall, probably. I'd appreciate it if you simply tell us how lousy they are until that point so I can avoid temptation.

thanks.

Kevin P · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 May 2005, 01:49 am »

Quote from: dwk

Hey! Stop that!

No time on the slate for these until the Fall, probably. I'd appreciate it if you simply tell us how lousy they are until that point so I can avoid temptation.

thanks.

Oh... sorry. They suck.

Is that better?

They are excellent in the sweet spot right now but I have a few off-axis issues that I'm working on. I'm also going to try them in several different rooms to get an idea of how they react. They have so much low end that it can be a problem if you get them too close to boundries. I'm going to probably do a crossover for near room boundry applications and another for out in the room positions. I was also thinking it would make sense to offer a few variations with different levels of high frequency emphisis. Some rooms are reflective and others are dead. It would be useful for most builders to have some ability to tweak the speaker rather than the room (or cables, amps and other expensive components).

klh · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 May 2005, 03:44 pm »

Kevin... that sounds like a hell of an idea. Especially since a significant percentage of those who buy the 641s will have them as surrounds. Would one be able to switch from one crossover type to another if they decide to change speaker location after the initial build?

Kevin P · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 May 2005, 06:54 pm »

Switching crossovers depends upon how you install them. There are some people who mount the crossover external to the speaker so they can play with them. If you hot glue everything inside the cabinet getting in and making changes can be a challange. Since this is DIY use your head and think about how you are installing them. If you plan for having the ability to go in and make changes later then it shouldn't be an issue.

klh · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 May 2005, 07:43 pm »

I figured as much. Thanks.

Kevin P · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jun 2005, 04:15 pm »

Updated FR with final crossover:

This is the LSPCAD file but the measured data is virtually the same.

Unsmoothed raw data. All data is good to about 150Hz. Ignore the data below that point because it's not accurate.

Notice that the tweeter crossover is at about 4.1K, just outside of the critical midrange. The phase jump is at about 2.8K and then we have linear phase across the rest of the midrange. We use a 4th order electrical on both the midrange and the tweeter at this crossover.

On the woofer to midwoofer transition we are using a 2nd order electrical @ 500Hz. We don't benefit as much from the steep crossover down low and the cost/complexity goes up considerably using a higher order crossover in this range.

The end result is that we have one driver, no crossovers across the entire midrange with no phase jumps within most of that range. We have all the drivers operating FAR within their linear limits with over a two-octave buffer from all crossover points. No notch filters needed as we don't have cone break-up problems to filter. We have extremely smooth on-axis and off-axis response. All drivers are operating within their sweet spot and not loosing performance due to VC heating and other power related non-linearities. XBL^2 motors on both the midrange and the woofer mean very little motor related non-linearities within their range of operation.

This is the reverse null.

And how about this. A fantastic crossover design as above along with an impedance curve that looks like this.

I'm very happy with this guy. At this point, I don't know how to improve it further. Dail is tired of rebuilding the crossover for listening sessions and I'm extremely pleased with the subjective performance.

Al Garay · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Jun 2005, 04:27 pm »

Is the 641 ready to ship?

Shooting for end of June to be done with the LCRs for front 3 channels. By then the 6 channel Hypex amps could be done and I'll be ready to try the 641s for surrounds. Should match beautifully with the LCRs.

Kevin P · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Jun 2005, 09:55 pm »

Al,

The design is done but they won't be ready for release for another couple weeks. We are just waiting on a few crossover parts and documentation needs to be finished up.

They should match with the LCR perfectly. I'm dong an install where the customer has over $150,000 in the system/room. We are using the LCRs across the front and the 641s for surrounds just like your set-up.

I'll take some pictures when we are all done.

Al Garay · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Jun 2005, 07:02 am »

Why that copy cat!

And he is using Hypex amps for power? I guess I could do worst. I wonder what his HT processor will be... on the other hand, you better not tell me.

I'm looking forward to hearing your 641 when you are ready.

Kevin P · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Jun 2005, 02:23 pm »

Quote from: Al Garay

Why that copy cat! And he is using Hypex amps for power? I guess I could do worst. I wonder what his HT processor will be... on the other hand, you better not tell me.

I'm looking forward to hearing your 641 when you are ready.

I offered to build a seven channel Hypex amp

It would certainly sound better than most high dollar SS amps I've heard. His main concern is HT so I suggested he buy something with multichannel room correction like the high dollar Denon machine. I'm not sure it has enough sex appeal for him though. He will probably end up with something from Lexicon that looks more like a Mercedes rather than a Chevy.