[marc513]

      I own a NAT SE2SE power amp that two 211 tubes per mono block.
I want to see what everybody’s experience is not looking at NOS tubes.
I would like to stay under 350 a pair if possible. There are just so many
Choices .I need tubes now using my back back up tubes Sino 211 low
Hours and kind of so so sound . My main tubes I used were Psvane
211 T 11 a nice tube . Just looking for some advice thanks
Marc

[FullRangeMan]

I dont know the current 211 tubes. But GE made a lot of bad valves, and in general GE were the worst American brand (commodity style tubes) but they made the best 211 and one of the best 5751. IMO

[mick wolfe]

      I own a NAT SE2SE power amp that two 211 tubes per mono block.
I want to see what everybody’s experience is not looking at NOS tubes.
I would like to stay under 350 a pair if possible. There are just so many
Choices .I need tubes now using my back back up tubes Sino 211 low
Hours and kind of so so sound . My main tubes I used were Psvane
211 T 11 a nice tube . Just looking for some advice thanks
Marc

I would probably avoid AliExpress although they do feature an endless variety of 211's. Ebay seems only slightly less risky. The safest bet within your budget may be  Amazon. They have a decent variety of 211's to choose from plus fairly liberal warranty and return options. FWIW, I've had good luck with Linlai 845DG's, but I did pay a bit more buying thru premiumvacuumtubes.com. Less expensive entry level 211's can be found at both The Tube Depot and The Tube Store. In the end, it's still a roll of the dice. Most if not all of the "affordable" transmitting tubes will be of Chinese manufacture. But as I've said, I've found them to be pretty reliable for the most part.

[marc513]

Psvane horizon series 211 tube anybody tried them ? Everybody can’t
Be using NOS 211 tubes somebody must have some opinions on the
Seemless never ending versions of this tube out there . Come on spill
Your secrets

[mick wolfe]

The problem is that 211 amps are somewhat rare compared to say 845 amps. So info is not going to be as plentiful. Your $350 budget leaves you looking at the usual suspects....entry level Shuguang, Psvane, Linlai, etc. Although my experience is with the 845 and not the 211 tube, I would recommend spending a bit more on the Linlai Global 211-DG. This solely based on my experience with the Linlai 845-DG. So take that for what it's worth. Prices at Premium Vacuum Tubes start at $545 for a pair.

[FullRangeMan]

At audiophile prices there is the ELROG 211
At ER211................€ 1.700,-- / matched pair
Unfortunately its only 75W plate dissipation.
https://www.elrog.com/products/
Gulp !

On the other side, surprisingly there is a LinLai 211 pair said as New for only US $136.66 in Ebay 

[vintage9594]

I currently use Amperex 211’s with the bronze metal bases and have a NOS pair of GE211’s There is a sizable difference in the sound between these two.  Current models can’t hang with these in opinion.

[marc513]

Well folks I pulled the trigger on 2 pair Psvane horizon 211 tunes.
The tubes are coming from Amazon set to arrive today . That will
Be great I can stay inside today it’s going to have a heat index of
Over 100 today and tomorrow . Great time to play music in my
Basement music room nice and cool and dark. I will update this
Thread with my thoughts on this tube . I need to get some hours
On the tube to form any opinions

[Bodhi]

I would recommend spending a bit more on the Linlai Global 211-DG. This solely based on my experience with the Linlai 845-DG. So take that for what it's worth. Prices at Premium Vacuum Tubes start at $545 for a pair.

+ 1. The premium Linlai 211 tubes are good value relative to Elrogs for example, and are v good sounding tubes.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Not to get off topic, but can you try and describe the sound and imaging of the Nat amp?

Thanks,

Rocket Ronny

[FullRangeMan]

Do you play guitar FRman? Nice to meet a fellow valve-cooking six-stringer.
Unfortunately I dont play, but my son play some notes.
I bought some equips to encourage him.
Like that Rane amp,.

[FullRangeMan]

Studio owner.

[Solarflares]

My experience of valves over the years, and my delving into vintage valves of the 50’s and early 60’s for the last 10 years, has led me to a few conclusions concerning used vintage vs new moderns.
Firstly, the vacuum of modern valves is not as good as oldies.
Secondly, modern valves will not last anything like an oldie will.
Thirdly, an oldie now running at 70% efficiency will still last longer and outperform a modern new valve.
Fourthly, the risks of shorting, red-plating, and leaks are hugely increased on modern valves.
Fifth, there is no headroom beyond spec with modern valves, but oldies would perform way beyond spec.

The old manufacturing process of (especially) Mullard would both use and process some severely lethal materials, which were an essential route to achieving correct metal purity. These are now under strict environmental law, and  the process is simply omitted, or vastly scaled-down by modern manufacturers, due to both ignorance and the prohibitive cost. The problem is compounded by the fact that we are mining severely depleted resources, and this means that what’s left and available is more impure than materials from 70 years ago.
The knowledge is also gone.  A group bought all the old Mullard tooling back from Europe, and brought it back to England, where they set it all up in a factory, with high hopes. The problem was they couldn’t find anyone alive that could tell them how it was done! No documentation exists to this day.

Once Svetlana’s St.Petersburg factory shut down, that spelt the end for quality valve manufacture in the whole world. The Reflektor plant is a poor facility, churning out junk that is rebadged by importers. These valves are currently not available due to the Ukraine war sanctions.
The Shuguang plant is of the same vein, with equal sonic characteristics to Reflektor junk.
JJ are Slovakian. They had a very dubious start, with lots of red-plating and firework shows. I still don’t trust them, and they are quite bland anyway.
PSvane will tell you this and that about high-quality, fancy, unique alloys, with gold-plated grids, and other spurious shit, but the real essence of a great valve is the vacuum, basic metal-purity, and the secret sauce of top-quality manufacture from a different age.

Of anything produced today, expect flabby bass -indistinct from lo-mids, harsh treble, and a very forward, abrasive high-mid voicing. Some have smoother rolled-off treble, but are still awful.
Don’t talk to me about reissue Mullard and Tung-Sol. Despite good reviews from muppets, my thoughts are justifiably negative - especially when, with a little effort, you can still find good vintage valves that will outlast them, and sound fantastic.

So I say - find great, closely-matched, fully-tested used vintage examples from reputable sources that will display detailed test results in a format you can understand. When I say matched - I mean bloody matched.
I was patient enough to wait for fine examples on eBay. All my 1958-1964 Blackburn Mullards are documented, and always test well above book spec by at least 25%. I’m sure you can still do this with both 50’s/60’s GE, and 50’s Tung Sol.  But everything else is inferior in sound quality, and not worth the bother.  (Except for Jan Philips 5751)
Real St.Petersburg winged-C Svetlana’s are still available if you search, but sellers will claim Reflektor black-prints are originals - they’re not. So beware. Do your research. Do some more. You should go to sleep with a picture in your head of what the real thing looks like - before you part with serious cash.
Make sure you know all the possible equivalents for your valves, and what extra military ruggedness might be added to the design, possibly making it less suitable for audio use.
You should know all the figures off the top of your head, like knowing the top HT voltage of each make, and you will definitely come to the same conclusion I have.

I could give you a list of the best currently manufactured valves available, but I’m not going to bother, as I put them all in one basket - the shit-bin.
Don’t be swayed by a small fancy maker, with gold grids and wild claims. It’s the same old low-vacuum crap, with dubious track record, and a ridiculous price-tag. Anyone can make a big bottle glow in the dark.

Happy hunting. I’m the used Mullard king.
All my Blackburn type-161 ECC83 and MC1 Mullards were £50/$50 or less, and I’ve stockpiled a dozen or so. All way above spec and sounding phenomenally linear and clean.
Mullard EL34 XF2 are around £120/$120 each, but make sure they are above 100%, and don’t rattle when shaken.
Mullard GZ34 rectifiers are still around too.

Edit. - I will finally add that buying a quality vintage used, tested valve in high-spec condition, barring microphony, depleted getter, and obvious abuse - is a sure way of obtaining a valve that will perform admirably, and have a continued operational life way beyond anything you can buy new today.

My article link below goes some way to explaining why.

I’ve omitted speaking about NOS valves, mainly due to the mind-boggling rising prices, and the economic sustainability of utilising them in a cathode bias amp, where they will last only 6 months.

[FullRangeMan]

Unfortunately Iam forced to agree with you, current tubes stink, all the 300Bs available are laughable. All the valuable vintage Mullard factory manuals were destroyed by order of the company's management.

[Solarflares]

Unfortunately Iam forced to agree with you, current tubes stink, all the 300Bs available are laughable. All the valuable vintage Mullard factory manuals were destroyed by order of the company's management.

An interesting article for you…
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0892687510002177

With the above in mind, and pondering the poor general quality of alloys originating from China, would you seriously trust a valve from that country - bearing in mind the strong environmental laws concerning Arsenic, Antimony, Mercury, and Lead. I certainly don’t.
Since the Shuguang plant is now knocking out millions of valves a year, then environmentally that plant would make Chernobyl look like Disneyland - were they to fully implement the correct leaching processes, and shareholders would surely complain of the astronomical cost of both the stringent demand high-alkaline processing and difficult disposal of the oxide and specific impurities thereof.

[Early B.]

Like almost everything else, things were built better in the past - no argument there. It ain't rocket science, though -- they're just tubes and can be "easily" manufactured. The problem is the exorbitant cost it takes to do them right in today's economy. Like most other commodities, handmade typically provides the highest quality and best sound. That's why the best tubes are ridiculously expensive.

[Solarflares]

Like almost everything else, things were built better in the past - no argument there. It ain't rocket science, though -- they're just tubes and can be "easily" manufactured. The problem is the exorbitant cost it takes to do them right in today's economy. Like most other commodities, handmade typically provides the highest quality and best sound. That's why the best tubes are ridiculously expensive.

No. You didn’t get it.  To do them ‘right’ requires knowledge. So who do you ask ‘eh?  Organise a séance perhaps?
No-one worldwide is making valves that come anywhere near close to the old secret-formulae of 50’s and 60’s Blackburn Mullards, which sound so clear and linear, and can also truly handle the correct voltages for that designated type - with headroom. That knowledge is now gone forever. Let that sink in.

As I said, the raw materials available now are also vastly more impure than 70 years ago.

Rather than scan read and then quickly come out with a glib statement of how any fool could do it - take the time to read my post carefully, and then read the article I was kind enough to post - Fully.

“Mullard - The Blackburn Story”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y

This will give you an insight into the processes involved.

Mullard Blackburn produced half a million glass-based components EVERY day, with over 6,400 employees.

[/mp]

....any fool could do it

It is often the case any fool can do it--with predictable poor results.

[Solarflares]

      I own a NAT SE2SE power amp that two 211 tubes per mono block.
I want to see what everybody’s experience is not looking at NOS tubes.
I would like to stay under 350 a pair if possible. There are just so many
Choices .I need tubes now using my back back up tubes Sino 211 low
Hours and kind of so so sound . My main tubes I used were Psvane
211 T 11 a nice tube . Just looking for some advice thanks
Marc

The NOS Mullard 6SG7 is a direct replacement for 6K4/VT211/CV1978.
Examples can be found easily for $100, but you will want a matched pair, or quad.

[Early B.]

No. You didn’t get it.  To do them ‘right’ requires knowledge. So who do you ask ‘eh?  Organise a séance perhaps?

You read an article and watched a Youtube video, and now you're a subject matter expert?

Tube making isn't a lost art. There are plenty of tube manufacturers doing it right, right now. If the knowledge is lost, how did WE, EML, Takatsuki, KR Audio, Elrog, and countless others acquire the knowledge? There's nothing special about NOS tubes.

FWIW -- I have all tube gear, and I currently use both NOS and contemporary tubes.

[WARNING: No Youtube videos were viewed in the writing of this post.]