[Early B.]

If I get one of the finished Rythmik subwoofers will it be the same sound or does the GR Research open baffle design make all the difference?

Open-baffle subs sound quite different from box subs, and Rythmik only makes box subs. For the best sound, opt for an open-baffle design.

[TomS]

I have the Popori WR-2's in a Bacch curated system with room correction.
The bass is good but the -3dB point i would say is 100Hz or higher.
This could be wrong as it's by ear without any measurement.
I see that a sub is used by some with Poporis -(Housteau).
I'm looking for a compatible sub to mesh with the Popori Electrostatics.
i've looked at GR Research's Open Baffle and the  Rythmik subwoofers.
I've also seen the Magnepan bass system.

i've heard none of them.

Any suggestions?

If you're in the US, you should get in touch with Michael Swek of Unique Home Audio (Popori distributor) regarding sub options.

Bacch ORC already gives you accurate corrected in ear measurements of the WR2's, just as Dave has shown for WR3/subs.

[StandardModel]

OK, are there any open baffle Rythmic type subs with a finished cabinet?

[Early B.]

OK, are there any open baffle Rythmic type subs with a finished cabinet?

No.

You don't need any woodworking skills if you order flat packs. Glue 'em & screw 'em. Oh, and you'll need to paint them, but if you're not looking for a furniture-quality finish, then Duratex is easy to use. And you can easily wire up the subs by following a color-coded wiring diagram.

[Tyson]

Assembling the flat packs is easy but I would pay someone to paint them if you want the finish to match your main speakers.

[Housteau]

An awful lot depends upon at what frequency you will be rolling your sub bass in at.  With the WR2 that frequency should easily be around 50Hz and below.  At such lower frequencies speed should not be any issue of concern.  However,  if you are crossing over much higher then speed does become more important the higher in frequency you go.

[Tyson]

An awful lot depends upon at what frequency you will be rolling your sub bass in at.  With the WR2 that frequency should easily be around 50Hz and below.  At such lower frequencies speed should not be any issue of concern.  However,  if you are crossing over much higher then speed does become more important the higher in frequency you go.

They said their in-room -3db is around 100hz so a blazing fast sub is critical in this application.

Also, even with lower crossover points, I've found out (through trial and error) it's still best to use OB subs to match with OB main speakers.  Planars and electrostatics in particular benefit from them.

[WGH]

With the WR2 that frequency should easily be around 50Hz and below.  At such lower frequencies speed should not be any issue of concern.

I thought bass below 50 Hz would be omnidirectional. I have heard the Magnepan 1.7i, 2.7i and 3.7 speakers with a REL Reference sub and the integration was always seamless. Of course the REL Reference series, the only model I would pair with Maggies or Popori speakers, cost a whole lot more than the DIY open baffle subs. The REL Reference subs in flawless high gloss piano black finish look a lot better in a living room than the hulking open baffle speakers painted in Duratex.

Whenever I see photos of open baffle speakers in a room I think "this guy is going to remain single for the rest of his life." I should know, I have been single for 76 years and loving every minute of it.

[StandardModel]

Do you remember Paint by Number? That's me.

[Housteau]

They said their in-room -3db is around 100hz so a blazing fast sub is critical in this application.

Also, even with lower crossover points, I've found out (through trial and error) it's still best to use OB subs to match with OB main speakers.  Planars and electrostatics in particular benefit from them.

No.  Not in this case.  They are considering their native in-room response pre integration.  Full integration will be using the BACCH system with ORC.  In using that the WR2s will be flat to their cut-ff frequency without subs, which will be between 35-40Hz.  With the Popori, any Popori, you are looking to integrate at very low frequencies.  The Popori play highly accurate and articulate hard-hitting bass at high SPLs if called on to do so.  These are not your typical planar, or electrostatic panels.  My bass towers roll in at 39Hz.

The only concern I have about using the open baffle subs in such a case is that they may lean more towards that quickness and speed where it isn't required, since the Popori are handling that.  In doing so they may lack presenting that needed strong foundation.

[Early B.]

The only concern I have about using the open baffle subs in such a case is that they may lean more towards that quickness and speed where it isn't required, since the Popori are handling that.  In doing so they may lack presenting that needed strong foundation.

"Quickness" and "speed" are merely descriptors of the sound, which means it has a fast decay, resulting in a tight and precise sound. Compared to "slow" bass, which has a slow decay, it is boomy, muddy, and inarticulate. You want "quick" bass at all of the lowest frequencies because it sounds better. It's doubtful that the Popori or virtually any floorstanding speaker can outperform the lower bass (say, 100Hz and below) better than a dedicated OB servo subwoofer designed by Rythmik or some other ultra-high-end subwoofer. Take the burden of outputting low bass from a floorstander, and it will likely sound cleaner. If you can conceive of a floorstander as an "integrated speaker," deferring the low bass to an OB sub is the same rationale audiophiles use to purchase separate components.   

[Housteau]

Normally I would agree, but not since owning the Popori.  The Audiophile Junkie will be releasing a video of mine soon highlighting my installation.  In it I go through various crossovers and slopes describing my results.

Without a doubt much does come down to personal preference and I can only speak of certanties in my case. Currently, I am loving high quality electrostatic bass.  If I remove that bass from the Popori I do not gain openness. That is already there in spades.  But, I do loose bass delicacy and articulation.  As you have suggested, that is often not the case with other speakers.  The Popori truly are a different animal when set up properly. The large Soundlabs are also capable of very fine upper bass, but also have their own baggage.

[Tyson]

What I have found is when the main speaker radiates bass in a figure 8 pattern, like here, then you really really want to have the sub match that pattern.  Box subs stick out like a sore thumb because they radiate like a pulsing sphere.  Makes perfect integration almost impossible.

[Housteau]

What I have found is when the main speaker radiates bass in a figure 8 pattern, like here, then you really really want to have the sub match that pattern.  Box subs stick out like a sore thumb because they radiate like a pulsing sphere.  Makes perfect integration almost impossible.

I don't disagree.  It can be difficult. What I believe is working in my favor is my low crossover point, as I don't have any soar thumbs here.

[Tyson]

I do agree that if you can get the crossover point low enough, that helps a lot (around 40hz or 45hz I'd guess).  One other thing that helps is if you have a somewhat regular/even room layout.  If you have those 2 things then it's not nearly as hard.

[Housteau]

In my room the perfect blend of electrostatic and cone bass is between 38 to 42Hz.  I was at 35Hz for a while but that was too low.  The different timings with the slopes,  distances and speed of the transducers all need to work together as well.  You can see my room and the charts earlier in this thread.

[Tyson]

I wish I had a room that good, seriously.  I am quite jealous

[StandardModel]

Housteau,

I think you use bass cone drivers with your Poporis with an upper cutoff of 38-42 Hz for the bass cones. Which one(s) are you using?  Are they Rythmiks or some other brand?
When I use a tone frequency sweep to test the output of my WR-2s I can hear the tone clearly down to 100Hz but then the sound output level (SPL)  from the Poporis starts to drop significantly.
 I can still hear the tone down to about 50Hz when it disappears completely. Is this room treatment interfering or just my old ears?

StandardModel

[Housteau]

Housteau,

I think you use bass cone drivers with your Poporis with an upper cutoff of 38-42 Hz for the bass cones. Which one(s) are you using?  Are they Rythmiks or some other brand?
When I use a tone frequency sweep to test the output of my WR-2s I can hear the tone clearly down to 100Hz but then the sound output level (SPL)  from the Poporis starts to drop significantly.
 I can still hear the tone down to about 50Hz when it disappears completely. Is this room treatment interfering or just my old ears?

StandardModel

I had mentioned 38-42Hz as the upper range of frequency cut-offs I can use for my bass towers and achieve basically the same result.  I am currently set to 39Hz.  My towers were made by VMPS many years ago.  You can see a photo at the beginning of this thread.  I have my WR3s rolling off at 55Hz.  I have natural room gain that helps to fill in that space between those two frequencies.

I think your old ears are just fine.  My WR3s drop off sharply at 40Hz and before that they begin a lesser drop starting around 200Hz.  However, this is not a concern for me as I use the BACCH/ORC system for room correction, which pretty much gives me a nice flat smooth response.  What makes the Popori special is that they are fully capable of high SPL output of low bass where the other designs simple fall apart.  They do have a gentle roll off before they completely drop off, but that is very easily corrected for.

Jason, The Audiophile Junkie, will be releasing a video on his YouTube channel soon that shows my installation of the WR3's from the start to finish.  In it you will see the steps I went through to achieve the results I have shown here.

[StandardModel]

Thank you.
I have talked and worked with Edgar many times. How he manages to do all that he does is beyond me.
He is a human dynamo. Nobody I know talks as fast as he does!

I have the Bacch4Mac with the Babyface Pro + and room correction output through Roon.
Is there anything more to be dome to activate the room correction other than to run it with the microphones in your ear in the listening position?
If I understand you correctly, a point source box subwoofer is just fine to use with the Poporis so long as  the subwoofer and Popori's output frequencies don't overlap.