[-Wolff-]

Hi,

I’m maybe planning to also do an crossover upgrade by Tony Gee.

I’m actually very happy with the tonality of my Spendor A7 speakers and don’t want that to change that much. I’m wondering if it could sound more open, playing with more ease and flow. With some more refinement, texture and layering, so without changing the tonality, or changing the sonic character or sound signature.What can I expect? Is it possible with just upgrading the existing parts?

I’m a bit hesitant because I don’t know how it would turn out. At the moment I can listen to my set for hours without being annoyed by something I want to change. So it’s nice and balanced, even with a dual sub integration.

[richidoo]

Sounds like Spendor has already done what you want with new A7.2 version.

Your best path to your stated goal is probably upgrading to the newer version.

[-Wolff-]

The new A7.2 has a lower sensitivity then my model. As I play with a valve hybrid amp, the extra sensitivity is more then welcome.

And buying new is much pricier then upgrading my current A7.

[Early B.]

Hi,

I’m maybe planning to also do an crossover upgrade by Tony Gee.

I’m actually very happy with the tonality of my Spendor A7 speakers and don’t want that to change that much. I’m wondering if it could sound more open, playing with more ease and flow. With some more refinement, texture and layering, so without changing the tonality, or changing the sonic character or sound signature.What can I expect? Is it possible with just upgrading the existing parts?

I’m a bit hesitant because I don’t know how it would turn out. At the moment I can listen to my set for hours without being annoyed by something I want to change. So it’s nice and balanced, even with a dual sub integration.

For about $500 in parts for the crossover upgrade, you can SIGNIFICANTLY improve the sound without altering the tonality. If you aren't comfortable with a soldering iron, get a buddy to rebuild the crossovers for you. It would be a fun Saturday afternoon project for him.   

[Tyson]

For about $500 in parts for the crossover upgrade, you can SIGNIFICANTLY improve the sound without altering the tonality. If you aren't comfortable with a soldering iron, get a buddy to rebuild the crossovers for you. It would be a fun Saturday afternoon project for him.   

Agreed, that's a pretty simple crossover.

[-Wolff-]

So you guys think I can really get what I wish for by upgrading this crossover with the same value of higher quality parts?

Grtz

[Doublej]

I would think about the situation differently. If I was investing $500 to improve the sound of my system where is that money best spent given my current setup?

[FullRangeMan]

I would think about the situation differently. If I was investing $500 to improve the sound of my system where is that money best spent given my current setup?

+1 

[FullRangeMan]

So you guys think I can really get what I wish for by upgrading this crossover with the same value of higher quality parts?

Grtz

Dear Wolf,
No one can guarantee this for you in good conscience.
Your requirements are too high (quote below) and clearly not compatible with the use of Xover, on the contrary the up-grade you wish are compatible with the non-use of Xovers (Full Range drivers direct from the amp). So please dont elude yourself to avoid disappointment.

I’m wondering if it could sound more open, playing with more ease and flow. With some more refinement, texture and layering, so without changing the tonality, or changing the sonic character or sound signature.What can I expect? Is it possible with just upgrading the existing parts?

Please note this about cross-overs:
Xovers damage the music signal in many ways not only in phase linearity:
1) Phase linearity are lost in the inductors freq cuts.
2) Musical notes harmonics are lost as heat in the XO parts.
3) Smear the music small details.
4) Remove the 3D ambience that are lost as heat in the XO parts.
5) Lost the original time frame alignment of the musical notes ploted during the recording of the music.
6) Decrease the speakers overall sensitivity due heat loss at least in 1dB according my experience.
As always IMO.

Site on small tube amps, hi efficiency speakers and FR drivers:
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/speakers.html

[SET Man]

Hi,

I’m maybe planning to also do an crossover upgrade by Tony Gee.

I’m actually very happy with the tonality of my Spendor A7 speakers and don’t want that to change that much. I’m wondering if it could sound more open, playing with more ease and flow. With some more refinement, texture and layering, so without changing the tonality, or changing the sonic character or sound signature.What can I expect? Is it possible with just upgrading the existing parts?

I’m a bit hesitant because I don’t know how it would turn out. At the moment I can listen to my set for hours without being annoyed by something I want to change. So it’s nice and balanced, even with a dual sub integration.

...

Hey!

   Using more expensive parts doesn't always guaranteed better sound than what you have you now... it could just be different flavor that fade over time.

    Of course there's no way to know until you installed those "upgraded" parts in and give it a listen... preferably after break in. I would recommend you be careful removing the original parts so it can be reinstall if you don't like the sound of the new upgraded parts.

   By the way... those caps I see in the pic I 6.8uf caps... the more expensive caps at that value would be pretty big so make sure you have room for them.

   Good luck and keep us posted.

[FullRangeMan]

Hey!

   Using more expensive parts doesn't always guaranteed better sound than what you have you now... it could just be different flavor that fade over time.

    Of course there's no way to know until you installed those "upgraded" parts in and give it a listen... preferably after break in. I would recommend you be careful removing the original parts so it can be reinstall if you don't like the sound of the new upgraded parts.

   By the way... those caps I see in the pic I 6.8uf caps... the more expensive caps at that value would be pretty big so make sure you have room for them.

   Good luck and keep us posted.

+1.
To keep safe the original PCB board I would suggest a new board.

[Tam Lin]

I’m wondering if it could sound more open, playing with more ease and flow. With some more refinement, texture and layering, so without changing the tonality, or changing the sonic character or sound signature.

How can you create a "more open sound, with more ease, flow, refinement, texture and layering" without changing the "tonality, sonic character or sound signature"?

I did a quick search among a couple  popular hi-end crossover caps;
6.8uf Mundorf Supreme Classic Silver/Gold in oil, 51mm dia x 50mm long, $254.
6.8uf Duelund CAST Cu/Sn, 165mm dia x 29mm wide, $580.

BTW, I replaced all the Mundorf Silver/Gold crossover caps that came in my Avantgarde Trios with Duelund CAST Cu/Sn. I also replaced all the coupling caps in my electronics with Duelund CAST Cu/Sn or Duelund JDM Cu/Sn. I like Duelund caps. JDM caps plus bypass are a very small step below CAST but much less expensive.

[Early B.]

How can you create a "more open sound, with more ease, flow, refinement, texture and layering" without changing the "tonality, sonic character or sound signature"?

I did a quick search among a couple  popular hi-end crossover caps;
6.8uf Mundorf Supreme Classic Silver/Gold in oil, 51mm dia x 50mm long, $254.
6.8uf Duelund CAST Cu/Sn, 165mm dia x 29mm wide, $580.

The 6.8uF Sonicaps are $53 each.

[FullRangeMan]

This is a well know cap test by Lampizator site.

[Speedskater]

........    Using more expensive parts doesn't always guaranteed better sound than what you have you now... it could just be different flavor that fade over time.
............... 

Yep. You may get a different sound, but it might bot be better. When the loudspeaker designer voiced the speaker, he chose a set of parts. Substituting different types of parts, may change the sound, but it might not be what the designer wanted.
All of one type of his capacitors may have been 5% low, so more accurate caps won't help.

[Early B.]

As is typical on an audio forum, you're getting divergent perspectives. There's a small cadre of audiophiles who believe crossovers shouldn't be used because they hinder speaker performance. And then there's the smaller cadre who believe active crossovers are better than passive ones. In your case, there's only one way to find out... upgrade that crossover and report back. You'll learn a lot based on your own experience.

[sailor]

Hi Wolff, let me tell you that upgrading the XO can bring the improvements you are looking for. I have upgraded many many XOs even on some 'high-end' speakers with easily heard benefits.

Do not worry about the alarmists saying it might be worse, the basic tone of the speaker remains but with more clarity, detail and openness. Voicing a speaker? It doesn't work like that. The designer produces a XO that under measurement shows a good response and then uses components that are priced to fit the budget and that is it

Using better components will, under measurement, show the same response therefore not changing the character of the speaker. Understand no capacitor or resistor can improve the sound but where the improvement comes from is the better component doing less damage. Lets look at the resistors being used in your XO. Those white sand cast things are the cheapest worst sounding available which usually have magnetic end caps. Take a magnet to them to check. I have empirically proved this to many doubters with big mouths claiming I can't possibly hear this.

Simple: most tweeters have an attenuation resistor in series, in your XO it looks like 3.3 ohms so to illustrate my claim I would replace that 3R3 with a series string of 10 x 0.33 ohms which = 3R3 so same value. Now listen to this temporary set up and hear the detail lost, the sound seems lifeless and sounds muffled. This is just to exaggerate the problem to show the damage more obviously. Although 1 resistor won't be as bad as 10 it's still there. Just replace them with 12W Mills at about $10 a pop.

The inductors are badly positioned causing crosstalk from coupling. Remember this is how a transformer works. From your photo take the inductor (coil) at the bottom right and stand it on its end cap. Take the coil at bottom left and rotate it 90 degrees in either direction. Do not use cable ties here, mount them on silicone including the big coil at the top but without changing its position. This will significantly lower the amount they talk to each other thereby lowering the noise floor.

Caps: replace the series cap in the tweeter circuit with a Jantzen Superior Z (must be same value) or perhaps a Mundorf. I would also replace the parallel cap if there is one with something less expensive like a Clarity Cap. The other caps look OK just check the capacitance has not drifted. You would need to lift one of the legs to get an accurate reading. If that's too much work then ignore.

Wire: replace with single core OCC copper in Teflon (PTFE has the lowest dielectric constant) and do not use those press-on cheap connectors. Solder directly to the PCB and at the speaker terminals. Use 16 to 12 AWG wire to woofer and 20 to 18 AWG to tweeter. Also try find good speaker terminals which is not easy. Yours will be made out of brass then nickel plated then gold plated, nasty.
 
That will get you a big lift in performance.   It would be easier to advise if I saw a schematic of the XO

Good luck

[Doublej]

sailor,

Where do you purchase your wire from?

[sailor]

Firstly let me say be careful where you buy from, ebay is full of scammers. Audiophonics in France and also other parts of Europe. A few in the UK and Parts Connexion, Canada. VHAudio also stocks good wire. Solid core is preferable to stranded.

I like OCC silver for interconnects and use KLEI low mass RCA connectors stocked by most of the vendors mentioned. If you really want to take it further get bare wire and insert it into a silk sleeve but not for high voltage use. Or use a PTFE tube a bit bigger diameter than the wire. The bare wire will only touch in a small contact area so it is mostly surrounded by air resulting in a very low dielectric constant.  Air has dK = 1.0059,   A vacuum dK = 1,   PTFE = 2

[-Wolff-]

Hi Wolff, let me tell you that upgrading the XO can bring the improvements you are looking for. I have upgraded many many XOs even on some 'high-end' speakers with easily heard benefits.

Do not worry about the alarmists saying it might be worse, the basic tone of the speaker remains but with more clarity, detail and openness. Voicing a speaker? It doesn't work like that. The designer produces a XO that under measurement shows a good response and then uses components that are priced to fit the budget and that is it

Using better components will, under measurement, show the same response therefore not changing the character of the speaker.

That will get you a big lift in performance.   It would be easier to advise if I saw a schematic of the XO

Good luck

Thank you for your response. That what I wanted to hear.

I’m not going to do the crossover upgrade myself. I will actually bring my speakers to expert Tony Gee from Humble Homemade Hifi and he will measure and build it. He is highly recommended. But since I can’t hear it at my home, I’m hesitant. With cables or other components I can do a A/B test and if I like it I will buy it. With this crossover upgrade it’s different and that’s the downside. I need to trust his experience and expertise but that is also why I turn to you guys at this forum. To ease my mind with your experiences.

Nice to know you see possible upgrades for my crossover. I can upgrade the internal wiring too but haven’t discussed it yet.

Thx!

Grtz