DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC

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usaman

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DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« on: 8 Feb 2025, 04:13 pm »
Shopping for my Vision EC DAC replacement.  I could easily cut the Stellar Gold price in half by trading in my Insight + and Vision EC dac or just sell them in the market and buy Frank's DVA dac.  AVA has always been a great value for me and each have great reviews but hard for me to decide which one to buy. Anyone hear both DAC's ?

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #1 on: 8 Feb 2025, 05:03 pm »
The DVA is a dac/preamp, was designed to be used that way, and (imo) sounds its best used that way on the balanced outputs. I own one and use it with the M225 amplifiers and sold a very expensive preamplifier I'd been using. Since both are available with in home trial I'd suggest comparing them in your system.  :thumb:

usaman

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #2 on: 8 Feb 2025, 06:00 pm »
Either can go straight into my fet valve 550 but only as unbalanced.  For my ease of use, I most probably will go through my T-8 but it still would be available.  My priority is stepping up my DAC game right now without in-home shipping hassle's.

jandrews

Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #3 on: 8 Feb 2025, 06:33 pm »
How much better does the balanced output sound than rca?
I’m planning to get the dva preamp/dac to use with my NP1, but that’s unbalanced only.

WGH

Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #4 on: 8 Feb 2025, 07:15 pm »
AVA Digital Preamp or PS Audio Stellar Gold? I think they would sound very similar, I have a hard time hearing any differences between DACs, but there are differences. Teasing out the differences takes about a week of listening. Bass may be lower and tighter but if you don't have a sub then you won't notice. Imaging and depth of field with one DAC might be a WOW! but if your speakers are not set up perfectly you may not notice that either. Which is why you should do a test run with each DAC in your system.

I have listened to the AVA Digital preamp in my system and the PS Audio DirectStream MK2 at a friends homes but never together. My impression is both are very clean and precise sounding. All PS Audio gear sounds clean and precise.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=188579.msg1974481#msg1974481

"A friend brought over his DVA Digital preamp. The DVA is a clean sounding preamp and DAC, if you like it depends on if you prefer the sound of a standard DAC that does all the processing in the chip or a non-oversampling DAC like my Holoaudio May.

"One of my tests when I hear a new piece of equipment is "do I have to have it" or "that was interesting". For me, the DVA Digital preamp falls into the "that was interesting" category. It's about synergy, the Fet Valve CFR preamp sounds great with the Salk HT2-TL speakers which can edge toward analytical if everything isn't right. The HoloAudio May KTE DAC is a true non-oversampling R2R DAC, it's sound is never sharp or digital unless the recording is. I also upsample all music to DSD256 using HQPlayer. I prefer the HoloAudio/HQPlayer sound to all the other DACs I have heard, not that the other DACs are bad, it's just what I like."


I also mentiond the DVA Digital Preamp in a review of the Salk BePure speakers
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=189729.msg1984959#msg1984959

"A review of the DVA Digital Preamp in Part Time Audiophile said:
"There were a few times when I felt that the DVA almost stripped too much of the dirt and the junk from the music, causing a slightly lean quality that simply wasn’t there with the FET Valve CFR. But the DVA compensated by being more exhilarating."

"My exact feelings too. Perfect sound was hit and miss, it depended on the recording. I prefer the warmer quality of the FET Valve CFR preamp. With the DVA preamp it was too easy to slip into analytical mode thinking "Wow, listen to this" instead of relaxing and listening to the music as a whole.

"I wrote about the Fet Valve 600R back in 2022:
"I own both the SET 400 and the previous model, the Synergy 450. The sound is very close but the SET 400 is a little more balanced, smoother and does a disappearing act. A friend brought over his 600R, it doesn't have the warmth of the SET 400 so it appears to have more upper midrange and treble, it definitely has greater headroom but I never play music that loud except for demos."

"As you can tell I have mixed feeling about the DVA Digital preamp and Fet Valve 600R. My thoughts are about pairing these electronics with the Salk HT2-TL speakers and the BePure 1 monitors. The DVA Digital Preamp and 600R could be a perfect match with older, less revealing speakers like my previous Von Schweikert VR2's or speakers that have a silk dome tweeter. Not that the DVA and 600R are bad with the BePure's per se, but a different pairing would let these speakers really bloom. Perhaps different tubes in the 600R would bring the highs and midrange in better balance. Jim Salk recommends the McGary Audio SA1E with the BePure speakers."

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #5 on: 8 Feb 2025, 07:57 pm »
How much better does the balanced output sound than rca?
I’m planning to get the dva preamp/dac to use with my NP1, but that’s unbalanced only.
For me it was significant. I was not initially impressed with the imaging and soundstage in my system (single ended). After talking to Frank about it, he recommended trying it balanced and discussed why it would sound better (perhaps Mithat could expand?). I took it to a friend's house who has an excellent dedicated room/system. We installed it in place of his Berkeley Audio Reference dac/preamp with Berning 845 amplifiers that have both SE and XLR inputs. As predicted by Frank, as we changed from SE to balanced outputs, the fairly flat, 2 dimensional soundstage (same as at my house) just opened up and became 3 dimensional and emotionally involving. Not something all audiophiles care about but I do. I purchased the M225s to pair with the DVA and my system immediately came to life as it had at my friend's. No difference in tone, timbre. You could ABX that all day. It was soundstage and engagement.

I have no experience with the PS Audio Stellar, or if they also feel there are advantages to running it balanced vs SE. Maybe worth a  call to them to discuss?

usaman

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #6 on: 8 Feb 2025, 08:01 pm »
my money tree has yet to bloom enough to just pluck for a major system upgrade.  I'm more than happy with the quality of sound from my system.  I'm feeding a wonderful pair of Salk/Fried commemorative towers with a 1k upgrade in xover components. They're complemented with 2 250w plate amps feeding my old Fried H passive dual channel (coffin)T-line woofer fed from my amps speaker terminals.  You're right about the synergy between the components.  I have read that PSA with AVA preamps were less than an optimum match yielding a leaner midrange and more brilliant highs.  Maybe the shipping hassle would be worth the in-home audition.

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #7 on: 8 Feb 2025, 08:42 pm »
....Maybe the shipping hassle would be worth the in-home audition.
Almost everyone has in-home trial now. I don't buy anything without trying it first in my system.

I didn't realize the Stellar is also a dac/preamp. Thought it was a stand alone dac. My bad. Its balanced dac topology may indicate it will also perform better (subjectively) on the XLR outputs?

usaman

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #8 on: 8 Feb 2025, 09:44 pm »
Everything I've read about the two DAC's is there are many sonic benefits to choosing unbalanced as well as I2S.  It's been awhile since I read up on balanced systems but would the entire chain have to be unbalanced?  Balanced from DAC to balanced pre and balanced amp?  I think I remember cardas used to sell converters for SE to balanced but did they work well?  Do they remove some or all the
induced noise?  If I plug my cd transport (SE) into a balanced DAC, will that audio sound better with a converter going into either or both my preamp and amp?

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #9 on: 8 Feb 2025, 11:18 pm »
You would go into either one of these dac/preamps from your CD transport via digital, on the s/pdif output, not analog, and (potentially) eliminate your preamp as I (and other's I'm sure) did. They only have digital inputs. Van Alstine does make a surprisingly good and inexpensive analog to digital converter if you're also playing analog sources.

There are advantages/disadvantages to running either balanced or unbalanced. I was only unbalanced until recently. I now have the balanced (digital only) AVA system in our living room (server/transport digital into the DVA, balanced out to the amplifiers) and everything in my second (main) system is unbalanced tube amplifiers, preamp(s), etc.

When some of the better dacs on the market (Berkeley, Chord Dave...) implemented good 32 bit digital volume into their dacs, most of the folks I know went that way and eliminated their passive or active preamps. Huge upgrade. Most of those dacs I don't hear a significant difference between balanced and unbalanced outputs, but I did on the DVA, and as mentioned, don't know about the PS Audio.

I think this is the argument for in home demo. Try them side by side with and without the preamp, balanced and unbalanced.....

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #10 on: 9 Feb 2025, 12:16 am »
I did the initial review of the AVA DAC/preamp.  It is an excellent DAC by itself.  I compares well to DAC's in the 3K to 5K range and for the most part sounded better than my 5K Luxman DA-06 DAC and I would easily compare it to the PS Audio Direct stream although PSA had more space between instruments.  You can pick the PSA up for about 1600 now refurbished from PSA.  It was a 6K DAC until they came out with the new version.  The AVA is more holographic.  The PSA DS has different software packages that you can download to change the sound.  I would call it a toss up between it and the AVA.

AllanS

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #11 on: 9 Feb 2025, 02:01 pm »
I haven’t compared the two specific DACs but I’ll offer why I gave up my PSA gear.  My impression of the PSA house sound is detailed and clean with great delineation or space around instruments.  This is reflected in their Octave recordings and Paul McGowan’s focus on sound stage presentation.

It works but isn’t for everyone.  In my experience the presentation is almost like first row / on stage all the time. This is great for those that want that presentation.  I just found that it’s not for me.  Many recordings don’t support or even benefit from this presentation.

I’m still trying to figure stuff out but I think I prefer my presentation to be more like mid hall or 6/7th row depending on the genre and recording.  I like good sound stage layering but a bit more blended / muddy in the horizontal placement.

Unfortunately the only way to know is an in home demo.  I totally get the shipping concern.  I keep track of all the $ pissed away on return shipping and restocking fees.  It’s a “cost of doing business” but I think unavoidable.  It does make me a lot more selective in what I demo and more specifically why.

Best of luck!

RonN5

Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #12 on: 9 Feb 2025, 03:57 pm »
I suspect another aspect of the sound is the chip....I believe the AVA uses and AKM chip and the PSA uses and ESS chip.  Granted, the chip is only part of the overall final sound that you hear...but there is a lot written on various forums about the slight difference in sound between the two chips...both have many fans and the only way to really know is to try.

gene9p

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #13 on: 9 Feb 2025, 05:10 pm »
chipsets do have different sounds for sure...I have had several dacs. If you want something completely different try a Rega product with Wolfson Dac chipset..or an old Pioneer blu ray player that has them. A much smoother warmer sound if that's what you like or are looking for.

WGH

Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #14 on: 9 Feb 2025, 06:11 pm »
Another DAC to consider is the ANK 2.1 if your listening is limited to 44.1 kHz (Redbook) and 96 kHz recordings. ANK DACs are all NOS (1x oversampling) and don't play hi-res like the AVA or PS Audio. The ANK DACs are optimized for 44.1 kHz and 96 kHz and are among the best DACs on the planet for that format. And they sound wonderful with beautiful tone without the 1st row etched detail like the AVA or PS Audio. Three guys in our audio club have ANK DACs. The 2.1 Signature sounds almost identical to the much more expensive 5.1 Signature.

ANK DACs are a kit but there are builders who will assemble them for you. I could get a builders name or two for you. The final cost would be in your price range.

https://ankaudiokits.com/product/dac-2-1/

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #15 on: 9 Feb 2025, 06:54 pm »
..... without the 1st row etched detail like the AVA or PS Audio....
Come on, now. The DVA does not have that sound signature in any of the systems I've tried it in.:nono: Something else is happening with your system if that's how it sounds in yours. Haven't heard the PS Stellar.

WGH

Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #16 on: 9 Feb 2025, 07:44 pm »
Come on, now. The DVA does not have that sound signature in any of the systems I've tried it in.:nono: Something else is happening with your system if that's how it sounds in yours.

I have heard the DVA in two systems. It is certainly not laid back. Depends on the speakers and other electronics too. I didn't feel there was great synergy with the my speaker's Seas W18 magnesium cone drivers and RAAL tweeter or the Salk BePure 1's beryllium tweeter. Part of the blame for the DVA's less than optimal pairing with the BePure 1 is the AVA Fet Valve 600R amp. Both my buddy Larry and I drove to Phoenix to hear the BePure 1's which have a Purifi driver. We both thought the speaker sounded the best with the grill on, probably why Jim Salk recommends the tubed McGary Audio SA1E with the BePure speakers.

The DVA might sound wonderful with usaman's Salk/Fried commemorative towers.


I.Greyhound Fan

Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #17 on: 10 Feb 2025, 12:27 am »
AllanS, I did not find the AVA DAC or PSA DSD in your face or first row in my system or my son's.  I actually found the PSA polite but it has so many different software packages that can change the sound.  I think the PSA is an awesome DAC and better than most in its price range.  Same for the AVA.  The AVA was smooth and detailed in my system and about mid row.

It is all about system matching.  I purchased a Marantz NA11s1 a few years back.  It had this fabulous tone and texture and it gave the most realisting and best sounding piano that I have ever heard.  But it was in your face in my system.  Too bad.  Other people that I talked to who owned this dac did not have this problem.

usaman

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Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #18 on: 10 Feb 2025, 01:21 am »
I appreciate all the feedback you've been so kind to offer.

I've never been disappointed with either product line.  I bought two of the new sprouts for 2 of my boys who decided to go the minimalist route and i was so impressed with it, i bought myself one for my bedroom.  I have had it hooked up to my LS/35a's and Fried B2's with more than happy results. 

With good ole Franks gear, I have always been impressed, so much so, that he's my first go-to fella when it comes to getting more gear.  After owning 7 or 8 pieces of his equipment, I just hear so much more wonderful music than i thought i was buying. 

It was mentioned that his DVA preamp DAC seemed holographic and that caught my eye.  Ive spent the last 5 years on room acoustics and i have an incredible sound stage that extends a good 6-8 feet past my side walls with impressive imaging, rock solid instrument placement, separation and layering.  It can be downright eerie at times.  Im interested in a new DAC that would enhance the sound stage i currently have.  Im going to give this a bit more thought and make a move in good time soon.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: DVA preamp DAC VS PSAudio Steiiar gold DAC
« Reply #19 on: 10 Feb 2025, 01:25 am »
I reviewed the DAC for Frank.  It is extremely holographic and it has a huge sound stage.  The only DAC that I have reviewed that was more holographic was the Exogal Comet.  It was eerily holographic and almost 3D.  It was so strange.  The AVA DAC is similar.  Read my review on the ava circle.  Buying the DVA DAC is no risk as they have a 30 day return policy with no restocking fee.