[mrotino332]

Just wondering if anyone has tried the X5s with Class D amplifiers and if so how do you like the sound?  I understand Class D amps sound quality can vary greatly.  I already have a class A integrated hybrid amp and a class AB EL 34 integrated amp both 30 watts/channel and wanted to also maybe try a Class D amplifier to see if it is to my liking and add to my amp collection. 

I'd rather try an integrated Class D amp something like the HIFI Rose RA 280 ganfet but it seems most Class D amps are very high powered and my X5s sound great with my 30 Watt/channel current amps so not sure if high powered amps are a good match with the high sensitivity X5s.  Most likely the volume control on high powered integrated amps would have very little range due to the high sensitivity of the X5s so not sure if that would be an issue as well.

Anyway it's just a thought to experiment and my reference amp is still my class A hybrid amp but just wondering if anyone has compared class D amps with either Class A or AB amps with their x5s.

[opnly bafld]

A friend had them and a Jeff Rowland Model 125 class D and loved it. I think he only compared it to a budget class AB though.

[Charles Xavier]

I don't have the X5's but I do have the M3 Saphires and use an Orchard Audio Starkrimson amp at 500 watts at 4 ohms  and they love the power. I also run Pass labs XA25 and Quicksilver Mid Mono amps that I alternate with my speakers and the speakers sound great with all 3

[fwinston]

I have Spatial Audio X3 speakers and am powering them with Atma-Sphere Class D monoblock amps.  I prefer these amps to the monoblock tube amps I first paired the speakers with.  The Atma-Sphere amps are every bit as liquid and smooth sounding as the tube amps but with greater clarity and dynamics.

[thestatman]

For the lower sensitivity Spatial models (<92dB) the additional watts may give better driver control and better sound if you play at realistic reproduction levels.   For the high sensitivity models (95dB and above) it all comes down to the sound quality of those first 10 watts - are they high quality and do you like the sonic signature?   The fact there is another 490 watts available is relatively irrelevant.   So no absolute answer here.   I have heard Class D I absolutely love (March Audio monoblocks with latest Bruno Putzey modules) and Class D I thought was awful.   Same with tube and AB solid state.

[AllanS]

For the lower sensitivity Spatial models (<92dB) the additional watts may give better driver control and better sound if you play at realistic reproduction levels…I have heard Class D I absolutely love (March Audio monoblocks with latest Bruno Putzey modules)…

To your point I ran PS Audio M1200s into my M4 Sapphires for a time.  The M1200 sound was very good, just not to my liking, but the M4 sound was effortless.  I rarely listen to anything at more than 70dB average at ~ 6’ so the M1200 were basically idling along.  I don’t know what it is about an amp that gives it that quality.
But what really got my attention here is your mention of March Audio amps.  I’ve never heard of March but I certainly want to learn more.  Purify based amps have always intrigued me but I never came across an implementation that appealed to me - until now.

[Daryl Zero]

I experimented with a more basic class D GaNFet power amp and really didn't like the results. I've wondered what the higher end monoblocks like AGD or Atmasphere would sound like. BTW, the Class D amp sounded fantastic with KEF Meta LS50s but not with any other speaker I owned. The tube amps I've used with the X5s sounded much better to me.

[mrotino332]

Well I decided to take a chance and purchased the HIFI rose RA280 ganfet Class D integrated which has a 60 day return policy so why not.

I'm actually quite shocked and very impressed with the sound quality with my X5s.  Prior to trying it I had little faith I would even like it.  But as of now after using it for about three days I'm preferring it to both my class A hybrid and all tube EL34 integrateds.

The HIFI Rose is very powerful and I don't need that power but regardless I can describe the sound as very fast, dynamic and even slightly warm in the mids which I think is a good match with the very revealing neutral X5s.  My X5s seem even more alive now.  There is a speed to the sound that is different than what I'm used to.  There is no harshness or sibilance whatsoever in the mids/upper treble and that was my biggest concern.  I played all my usual demo female and male vocals and no sibilance detected similar to my other amps.  Soundstaging and imaging are on par with my other amps.  If anything I felt the bass was a little lower in volume than my other integrateds but not by much.

As a bonus it also features a moving magnet phono preamp, bass and treble controls, sub out and UV power meters.  Kind of reminds me of the older receivers I had minus the tuner.  The bass and treble controls are by passable (that's how I'm using it currently) but they are implemented well as they use steep filters so if using them judiciously supposedly don't interfere with the midrange.  I'll experiment with the bass and treble controls soon but I don't feel as though I need them.  Maybe I would boost the bass by one notch so will see.

Since it's very powerful the volume knob for my listening preference (80-85 db) is only around 9 o clock but the volume remote changes the volume in small amounts so I do still have control over the volume.

Anyway I'll keep it in my system and keep playing it and if for some reason my thoughts change can always return it but right now I plan on keeping it.

[jnschneyer]

I'm curious to see what your impression is after some time listening to the Rose, if the speed and dynamics you describe will pall with time.  I tried the Orchard Audio Starkrimson with my X5s when it was making the rounds some months ago and had something of the same impression: very fast, clean, quick transients, not bright exactly but, due I believe to the quickness, a heightened sense of dynamics, more of a noticeable separation between this and that.  It was initially exciting, like there was more action.  Before long, though, it began to sound false and eventually wearied me, seeming both artificial and exaggerated.  It wasn't a bad sound - someone else may have preferred it - but to me it sounded false, manufactured.  It lacked the ease of real music.  And once that impression set in, there was no escaping it.  So I'll be looking forward to your impressions as you continue to listen.   

[Charles Xavier]

I'm curious to see what your impression is after some time listening to the Rose, if the speed and dynamics you describe will pall with time.  I tried the Orchard Audio Starkrimson with my X5s when it was making the rounds some months ago and had something of the same impression: very fast, clean, quick transients, not bright exactly but, due I believe to the quickness, a heightened sense of dynamics, more of a noticeable separation between this and that.  It was initially exciting, like there was more action.  Before long, though, it began to sound false and eventually wearied me, seeming both artificial and exaggerated.  It wasn't a bad sound - someone else may have preferred it - but to me it sounded false, manufactured.  It lacked the ease of real music.  And once that impression set in, there was no escaping it.  So I'll be looking forward to your impressions as you continue to listen.   

Thats strange. The Orchard is neutral. Happy Ultra owner with M3 Saphires.

[Downtheline]

I spent quite a bit of time with 3 amps using mostly same upstream equipment and my x5 speakers. Both my Don Sachs Kootenay and my atma-sphere class d beat out my pass xa25. With extended listening I then settled on the atma-sphere amps as I found the tube amps to have some glare or shine that became apparent on comparison. I've stopped (for now) auditioning amps. Before the pass i had a first watt f8 - that was great but I had that a while ago.

[jnschneyer]

Thats strange. The Orchard is neutral. Happy Ultra owner with M3 Saphires.

It's not that strange, really.  It's another example of the invariable subjectivity of hifi.  All the terms we use - dark, neutral, bright, colored, etc - are all so vague and subject to interpretation as to be almost meaningless.  As I said, it wasn't a bad sound, and someone else, you in this case, may prefer it.  To me, compared to the Valhalla I was accustomed to, in the end, it sounded artificial, less musical, and, once I heard it that way, I couldn't hear it any other way.  To categorically say the Orchard is neutral is really just to state an opinion.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the opinion at all.  It just isn't a statement of fact.  What does neutral even mean?  That it doesn't "color" the music.  But how do we know what the music is supposed to sound like, as we're always listening to it through the medium of hifi.  A discussion like this just further underscores the beauty and maddening subjectivity of hifi and why it's so imperative to hear gear in your home, in your system, with your ears, as, no matter how convinced one is that a piece of gear sounds this way or that, it may sound different to someone else.  It would make the purchasing of hifi gear so much easier if measurements were truly a reliable way of knowing what the gear will sound like.  Or maybe that would take the fun out of it. 

[dls123]

It's not that strange, really.  It's another example of the invariable subjectivity of hifi.  All the terms we use - dark, neutral, bright, colored, etc - are all so vague and subject to interpretation as to be almost meaningless.  As I said, it wasn't a bad sound, and someone else, you in this case, may prefer it.  To me, compared to the Valhalla I was accustomed to, in the end, it sounded artificial, less musical, and, once I heard it that way, I couldn't hear it any other way.  To categorically say the Orchard is neutral is really just to state an opinion.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the opinion at all.  It just isn't a statement of fact.  What does neutral even mean?  That it doesn't "color" the music.  But how do we know what the music is supposed to sound like, as we're always listening to it through the medium of hifi.  A discussion like this just further underscores the beauty and maddening subjectivity of hifi and why it's so imperative to hear gear in your home, in your system, with your ears, as, no matter how convinced one is that a piece of gear sounds this way or that, it may sound different to someone else.  It would make the purchasing of hifi gear so much easier if measurements were truly a reliable way of knowing what the gear will sound like.  Or maybe that would take the fun out of it.

That pretty much sums it up.  I could build you a 7 watt all DHT push pull amp that would drive them and some folks would prefer that over anything.  Or the Blackbirds.  Or a Raven driving a class D mono pair.  Or whatever.  We all have our taste.

[newzooreview]

The Orchard Starkrimson Ultra does have slight (up to 0.5 dB) deviations from flat frequency response above 2 kHz: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2986%3Aorchard-audio-starkrimson-mono-premium-amplifier-measurements&catid=97&Itemid=154

A well-designed loudspeaker would still be ±1.5 dB across the frequency range, and then there are room interactions.

So, even a small 0.4 dB frequency deviation could work in combination with a small peak in the loudspeaker's response, the room interactions, and source material that may have critical information at the affected frequencies.

[RonN5]

I also had the Orchard Stereo Ultra along with the Pass XA25… both very neutral both very similar sounding driving the LRS+.

[mrotino332]

Well as an update, I've owned the HIFI Rose RA 280 for one month now and I'm keeping it.  I prefer it to my previous Class A hybrid reference integrated and my other EL 34 amp.  I guess the biggest compliment I can give it is that I now listen to music more so than I did with my other amps as I find it more enjoyable which is ultimately what's important.  I understand Class D amps all sound differently similar to Class A amps and this integrated sounds very real to me as if another small veil has been lifted. It's as if my X5s have shifted to another gear which I didn't realize they had.  I also find the highs/cymbals to be more extended and real sounding but not shrill, as though I upgraded the capacitor on the tweeters to something of higher quality.

Regardless I still really enjoy my Class A integrated and will still use it in my system as well as the other integrated.  Others may disagree of course as this hobby is all subjective and it comes down to what sounds best to you.  I did have some audio buddies over recently as well and they also preferred the Class D amp in my system.

[Jprod]

I currently have a decware tori jr  v2 amp mated with a raven preamp and Spatial Audio x5 speakers. My phono pre is a Zesto andros deluxe 2.  I too have been interested in class d so I decided to take advantage of PS audios refurb special  and bought a pair of M 1200s to demo.  I like my all  tube set up but wanted to try something different.  If I like both may keep both and swap out from time to time. The decware amp sounds great and it’s great for tube rolling.   Where it doesn’t shine as well is at low listening levels at night.  My suspicion is that the m1200 with all that power will give me ample headroom for a more pleasant experience at late night volumes.

[Spatial Audio]

I currently have a decware tori jr  v2 amp mated with a raven preamp and Spatial Audio x5 speakers. My phono pre is a Zesto andros deluxe 2.  I too have been interested in class d so I decided to take advantage of PS audios refurb special  and bought a pair of M 1200s to demo.  I like my all  tube set up but wanted to try something different.  If I like both may keep both and swap out from time to time. The decware amp sounds great and it’s great for tube rolling.   Where it doesn’t shine as well is at low listening levels at night.  My suspicion is that the m1200 with all that power will give me ample headroom for a more pleasant experience at late night volumes.

We have a Tori Jr v2 in the lab. If you haven't tried different tubes, I can recommend the Gold Lion KT77. Improved tone and midrange over the stock tubes. The PSVane EL34s are also very good. At one point we had a single M1200 but that unit made our speakers hum and we sent it back. Didn't really get a chance to live with it. So, would like to hear your impressions with the pair you get. We think the Purifi-based VTV is a good Class D match with the Raven if you decide not to keep the M1200s.

[Jprod]

Well that’s disconcerting.  I will definitely report back when I get them.  I do get a low even buzz / hum with my decware as well.  I’m also almost ready to post a review of the Raven in that thread.  I wanted a lot of time with it and I don’t listen to music much during the week because of work and other commitments

[mrotino332]

I hear no hum or hiss even with my ears right up to the tweeter on my x5s using the Hifi rose RA 280 which is high powered.  Even engaging the tone controls and increasing the volume I don't hear anything from the speakers up close.  That was a concern of mine also when I purchased this amp that due to the high sensitivity of the x5s and high power of the HiFI Rose I would maybe get some type of hiss or hum from the speakers up close but thankfully I do not. 
Even my phono stage which is an IFI phono black is very quiet up close although I do hear a slight hiss if I increase the volume but I have to raise the volume quite a bit.