[johnwoitalla]

Right now it feels very quiet in my house, yet I can still hear cars outside, the occasional airplane droning in the distance, and the refigerator humming. I don't have a mic or any instrumentation to measure the noise, so I don't know objectively just what the ambient noise level is in my house. What I am wondering is, are most modern systems noise levels quieter than the average listening room, and if they are, why worry about noise once it gets down below noticeable levels? Additionally, isn't room noise a non sequitur once the level of the music gets to 50db or 60db and louder? I read on other posts that proper cabling can reduce amp noise, but by how much, and is it enough to make a significant difference when listening at moderate to loud levels? What are your experiences with this issue?

[Tyson]

Yes, most systems are quite a bit less noisy than the room they are in. 

[nlitworld]

I've definitely found the less noise you have on both fronts, the better the music sounds. The idea of midnight listening sounding better is proof of this. During noisy parts of the day it mostly means you're likely to turn up the volume to get the same volume level over ambient noise, but it shouldn't stop you from enjoying the music. There is something to be said for routing speaker cables and interconnects away from power cables as my system makes a significant difference in that aspect. Do what you can, but don't obsess.

[Tyson]

To add on to what nlit is saying, I'd recommend doing what you can to make your room itself more quiet.  IME, the more you do to quiet your room, the better the system sounds.

[KTS]

Right now it feels very quiet in my house, yet I can still hear cars outside, the occasional airplane droning in the distance, and the refigerator humming. I don't have a mic or any instrumentation to measure the noise, so I don't know objectively just what the ambient noise level is in my house. What I am wondering is, are most modern systems noise levels quieter than the average listening room, and if they are, why worry about noise once it gets down below noticeable levels? Additionally, isn't room noise a non sequitur once the level of the music gets to 50db or 60db and louder? I read on other posts that proper cabling can reduce amp noise, but by how much, and is it enough to make a significant difference when listening at moderate to loud levels? What are your experiences with this issue?

johnwoitalla

I am relatively new to 2 channel home audio and have been very blessed to come across this forum at the beginning of my journey, super helpful group of pros and enthusiasts alike. I agree 100% with the statements made. I think understanding the system noise can be a lot of different things is super important. The lower the noise floor in a system (the lower the better IMO) the more revealing the sound produced. If you have a dead quiet noise floor then ambient noise becomes more noticeable/distracting at lower levels. It has been my experience that absorption will help with ambient noise, my room varies from 35-45db of ambient noise average. Once I am above 60db with the music I do not notice anything distracting except during breaks in the music. The proper cabling and routings will help in keeping the sound floor as quiet as possible in your system. If you listen at moderate or loud levels with minimal room treatment you should be good. Experimentation is fun and educational, enjoy!

[Rusty Jefferson]

...What I am wondering is, are most modern systems noise levels quieter than the average listening room, and if they are, why worry about noise once it gets down below noticeable levels? Additionally, isn't room noise a non sequitur once the level of the music gets to 50db or 60db and louder?...

The main reason to promote as quiet a listening environment and system as possible is to increase dynamic range. This is important if you primarily listen to unamplified music recordings made in an open acoustic space. These recordings tend to have the most dynamic range and the most low level detail, both of which help make the listening experience seem more realistic. The loudest passages of these recordings could be 100+ dB while the softest (during the same piece of music) could be at or near the threshold of the room noise level. To extract the nuance of the instruments/room reflections in these passages the room and system should be as quiet as possible.

If on the other hand, the listening preference is more toward multitrack studio recordings, these tend to have the least amount of both dynamic range and low level detail. The best example of this is listening to music in the car. Constant background noise is the listening environment, but most popular music is made to sounds its best in the car, not on a quality stereo by compressing the levels of the instruments and vocals to be about the same loudness. This is true even for the classical music FM broadcasts now that compress out the wide dynamic range inherent in the recordings so people in their cars don't have to constantly adjust the volume as the music changes.

[Early B.]

High-end audio is primarily about eliminating noise. Components, power cords, interconnects, etc. -- nearly all of them are designed and marketed to "reduce the noise floor" to create a "black background."

Interestingly, audiophiles like to brag that their system sounds like live music, but live music events have excessive noise.

The first step in treating the room is to get it as quiet as possible. What's the point of acoustic treatment when you can hear the frig humming?? 

[tomlinmgt]

The first step in treating the room is to get it as quiet as possible. What's the point of acoustic treatment when you can hear the frig humming??

Because a humming refrigerator can't compromise spatial cues in the recording...room reflections can. During the blazing hot Texas summer, the mini split AC unit is going to be running full blast in my dedicated listening space and the noise floor with that thing cranked up on high is about 50 db. Without it, it would be impossible to stay in there for long without getting uncomfortable, so it's constantly creating a little background noise. But I still want the best fidelity I can get in spite of the background noise...and that ain't happenin' without acoustic treatments.

[Rusty Jefferson]

Because a humming refrigerator can't compromise spatial cues in the recording...

Of couse it can, same as the running air conditioner will. The situation is analogous to listening in the car as previously mentioned. You can still enjoy listening in the car but low level detail will be compromised.

[Rusty Jefferson]

That's not to say controlling reflections isn't just as or more important. 

[Tyson]

Acoustic errors are cumulative and you should eliminate as many as you can.

[artur9]

Interesting thread!

One thing I read recently is that the room itself can contribute to noise as distinct from ambient noise.  ASC calls it "room break-up".

These two articles of theirs are helpful:
https://www.acousticsciences.com/newsletter/noise-floor-the-room/
https://www.acousticsciences.com/artblog/room-breakup-the-audiophiles-curse/

Now I'm dreaming of a room with a noise floor of 20dB and and the lowest possible room reverb....

[tomlinmgt]

Of couse it can, same as the running air conditioner will. The situation is analogous to listening in the car as previously mentioned. You can still enjoy listening in the car but low level detail will be compromised.

I agree that background noise can mask low level detail and yes, in that scenario the spatial cues in the recording can be compromised. But for everything in the recording above "low level", not so much. I've never once experienced background noise from the air conditioner compromising image/sound stage resolution to the degree that poor room acoustics will. In other words, I'd much rather have an acoustically treated room that has a little background noise than a dead silent room with no acoustic treatments. The
 comment "What's the point in having acoustic treatments if there's a refrigerator running in the background" implies that it's pointless to have any acoustic treatments if there's any measure of background noise...and that doesn't seem like very good advice to me. There are plenty of people out there who have to deal with environmental noise but who can still benefit from acoustic treatments if they wish to optimize fidelity in a room with less than favorable acoustics.

[Early B.]

Your comment "What's the point in having acoustic treatments if there's a refrigerator running in the background" implies that it's pointless to have any acoustic treatments if there's any measure of background noise...and that doesn't seem like very good advice to me. There are plenty of people out there who have to deal with environmental noise but who can still benefit from acoustic treatments if they wish to optimize fidelity in a room with less than favorable acoustics.

The point I was making is the issue of misplaced priorities. Background noise, such as humming refrigerators, can often be minimized with little to no cost, but acoustic treatments and other interventions can cost a lot and can be marginally effective. A significant (and measurable!) reduction in room noise is 100% effective.