[TitaniumTroy]

https://www.tonepublications.com/review/worlds-first-review-the-magnepan-2-7x/

[Jon L]

WHO wrote this review? I can't seem to find that information on this review page..?  How about letting the reader know what the price is??  I had to google separately to find out the Manepan 2.7x are $10,000/pair.  Come on, guys..

[Saturn94]

WHO wrote this review? I can't seem to find that information on this review page..?  How about letting the reader know what the price is??  I had to google separately to find out the Manepan 2.7x are $10,000/pair.  Come on, guys..

The price is mentioned in kind of a round about way in the More Tech section (first two paragraphs).

[Jon L]

The price is mentioned in kind of a round about way in the More Tech section (first two paragraphs).

Isn't it tradition and decorum to have a little section in an audio review to list the specs and price? I still don't know who wrote this review.
 
At any rate, I have fond memories of Magnepan because the very first Maggie I heard was the sweet MG20's powered by $$$$ front end and amplifiers in an audio shop.  The female vocal was OUT of this world!  But the MG20 used to sell for $9200 or so back in the day, so it would have been nice if the review mentioned exactly what was upgraded for the extra $4000, the difference between $6000 stock 2.7i and $10,000 2.7X   

[/mp]

....it would have been nice if the review mentioned exactly what was upgraded for the extra $4000, the difference between $6000 stock 2.7i and $10,000 2.7X

The cynic in me leap to an answer very much like ownership's profit margin.

[Tam Lin]

The upgrade includes better capacitors, resistors, inductors, wire, and connectors.
https://magnepan.com/pages/the-x-series/

[SteveFord]

"These are by far an exceptional value".

What more do you need to know?

[FullRangeMan]

The upgrade includes better capacitors, resistors, inductors, wire, and connectors.
https://magnepan.com/pages/the-x-series/

These audiophile parts cost a lot of money.
Do they cant remove all these xovers parts
and made a one-way full range panel ?
So custumers could add a active sub under 200/300Hz.

[Letitroll98]

The upgrade includes better capacitors, resistors, inductors, wire, and connectors.
https://magnepan.com/pages/the-x-series/

A very comprehensive explanation including prices for both speakers and upgrades.  Am I being too cynical to say that Magnapan is charging an awful lot for building the speakers the way they should have built them all along?  It doesn't cost anywhere near two to four thousand dollars to put better wire, capacitors, and inductors in a speaker.  And why haven't they been using better components all along?  I recognize that there's a labor cost for upgrades, but the x speakers built originally at the factory have about the same price increase as the upgrades, do they build them twice?  If looks a lot more like a marketing program to raise margins than an upgrade program.

[HAL]

What would be interesting is if the 2.7X version was compared to a redesigned passive version from GR-Research.

The posted frequency responses for both for the stock 1.7 and redesign crossovers are significantly different, and the flat response of the redesign looks very good.

[Saturn94]

Isn't it tradition and decorum to have a little section in an audio review to list the specs and price? I still don't know who wrote this review.
 
At any rate, I have fond memories of Magnepan because the very first Maggie I heard was the sweet MG20's powered by $$$$ front end and amplifiers in an audio shop.  The female vocal was OUT of this world!  But the MG20 used to sell for $9200 or so back in the day, so it would have been nice if the review mentioned exactly what was upgraded for the extra $4000, the difference between $6000 stock 2.7i and $10,000 2.7X 

Agreed. 

[Saturn94]

…  If looks a lot more like a marketing program to raise margins than an upgrade program.

I was thinking the same.

[josh358]

These audiophile parts cost a lot of money.
Do they cant remove all these xovers parts
and made a one-way full range panel ?
So custumers could add a active sub under 200/300Hz.

The crossover points are higher -- woofer to tweeter might be at 1000 Hz, tweeter to supertweeter higher up.

You can always add a sub with an external XO, but that would be very high to cross over a sub -- 80 Hz would be more typical.

[josh358]

A very comprehensive explanation including prices for both speakers and upgrades.  Am I being too cynical to say that Magnapan is charging an awful lot for building the speakers the way they should have built them all along?  It doesn't cost anywhere near two to four thousand dollars to put better wire, capacitors, and inductors in a speaker.  And why haven't they been using better components all along?  I recognize that there's a labor cost for upgrades, but the x speakers built originally at the factory have about the same price increase as the upgrades, do they build them twice?  If looks a lot more like a marketing program to raise margins than an upgrade program.

Each model is built to a price point, so they have to decide what to put in it to give the most bang for the buck. A larger driver might do more to improve the sound, say, than an air-core inductor.

In fact, Wendell Diller once told me that he and IIRC Jim Winey had done a blind listening test and couldn't hear a difference between an air core and iron core choke -- which isn't to say there isn't one, just that if there is it was pretty subtle.

Anyway, better components are always a good thing -- I put Sonicaps in mine myself -- but that doesn't mean that less expensive ones can't be good, as witness the fact that most Maggies have them and they sound good.

[FullRangeMan]

The crossover points are higher -- woofer to tweeter might be at 1000 Hz, tweeter to supertweeter higher up.

You can always add a sub with an external XO, but that would be very high to cross over a sub -- 80 Hz would be more typical.

Forget these current drivers they have limited range,
they have to made a new full range driver as Carver Amazing.
https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/290carver/index.html

[Letitroll98]

In fact, Wendell Diller once told me that he and IIRC Jim Winey had done a blind listening test and couldn't hear a difference between an air core and iron core choke -- which isn't to say there isn't one, just that if there is it was pretty subtle.

I always bow to your Maggie knowledge in all cases, but here they're saying the exact opposite.  They're saying that in the quasi ribbon models improved components are worth $2-4,000 more than the standard, and more money in the true ribbon lines.  And they aren't claiming cost no object components, instead of Ohno copper it's 15ga.  No oil caps or foil inductors mentioned, just improved.  While I think there's great value in using cost benefit ratio in picking components that deliver improved performance with moderate price increases, that's not what's being offered here.

[josh358]

I always bow to your Maggie knowledge in all cases, but here they're saying the exact opposite.  They're saying that in the quasi ribbon models improved components are worth $2-4,000 more than the standard, and more money in the true ribbon lines.  And they aren't claiming cost no object components, instead of Ohno copper it's 15ga.  No oil caps or foil inductors mentioned, just improved.  While I think there's great value in using cost benefit ratio in picking components that deliver improved performance with moderate price increases, that's not what's being offered here.

I was just trying to comment on the standard versions of the speakers because I know that a lot of people are saying that the "X" versions mean that they're using substandard components. I think most people are going to be happy with the standard components, which had already been upgraded some years back when as I recall Wendell Diller found an OEM source of capacitors that were the same as some very fancy, very expensive ones, so the Plain Jane caps that are in the standard versions may be better than you think. Otherwise, I don't know any more about what's in the "X" versions than you do, or what's in the official product literature, anyway. As I recall, they're doing things like careful channel matching in addition to upgraded components. I do think they're doing everything they can to use the best components they know of, but the "X" versions are Mick's baby rather than Wendell's so you'd have to ask him for specifics.

PS -- I just read that Mike Hoatson told Marc Lombardi that they've done more than just upgrade the components -- apparently, they've gone to 1/4 mil film and stiffened the baffle. Those would add to the cost because of the additional labor required.

[josh358]

Forget these current drivers they have limited range,
they have to made a new full range driver as Carver Amazing.
https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/290carver/index.html

Those were the BG drivers -- IIRC, a custom version of the RD-50. (I use BG's Neo 8's in my own system.)

There are some very interesting engineering trades in these -- to a geek like me, anyway, LOL.

On the positive side, there's no crossover in the critical midrange and voice regions. Imaging should be better because everything is coming from the same location.

On the negative side, these are basically midrange drivers and they don't do very well in the highs, where they beam. That's why Genesis added a line of ribbon tweeters to them. I've run my Neos both full range and with the ribbon tweeter taking over at 2700 Hz, and they sound better with the ribbons. The Magnepan ribbon tweeters are still as good as any tweeter ever made. (OK, well maybe except for the ionic ones!)

If I were to come up with what I think is the optimal configuration, it would be dipole bass + RD 75 + ribbon. But in Magnepan's 3-way designs, the midrange cuts in higher and is on the same driver as the bass, except in the Tympanis and 30.7's, which have physically separate midranges.

One of the advantages of a separate midrange is that it can be made with a thinner film for lower mass. The High Quality Midrange on the 30.7's is special, because it uses a different diaphragm material (I don't know what it is -- Kapton? Kaladex?). I've seen the measurements and it is +/- 1dB in the critical midrange (re their target curve).

Wendell chose a different approach when he was designing the 30.7, namely, he added a midrange coupler that in effect keeps the bass panels out of the midrange so they don't reduce its clarity.

Anyway, with the conventional 2- and 3-way Maggies, a wider range midrange isn't really an option because you can't give it a separate suspension and it would steal area from the woofer. The 30.7 is the only model in which you could use a wider range driver, but if you did that, you'd be using the midrange in a region in which it doesn't perform as well, and Wendell went with the midbass coupler instead. I'm not sure how they would have compared -- I should ask Wendell sometime -- they've experimented with just about everything over the years! You're always compromising one thing or another in speaker design . . .