[captain]

I have just brought a Consonance M100S Plus amp and have replaced the original tubes with TJ 300B Mesh Plates. This is my first tube amp and am really impressed. I noticed a real difference replacing the stock 300B's with the Mesh Plates, and was wondering if their is as much difference if any of the other tubes are changed. They are 6SN7's and 12AX7's. I notice they are a lot cheaper to replace then the 300B's. Any recommendations on what might be a good tube to replace them with.

Thanks

[DARTH AUDIO]

Capitan, welcome the wonderful world of tubes!! As far as the 6sn7 check with your dealer or manufacture to see if this replacement for the 6sn7 will work. I use the Mullard ECC32  http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-ecc32.html in my deHaviland UltraVerve preamp instead of the 6sn7. This is a great tube. The sound is so beautiful. Tone on Tone. For your 6sn7 try Kenrad, Sylvania. For the 12ax7 try Mullards or Telefunkens. BTW, these tubes aren't cheap but they sound great. But in the end it's up to how you like to listen to you music. I like my music to be EMOTIONAL that's why I use a lot of Mullards and Tele's in my system.

Good luck with your search,

Gary

[claud]

For a somewhat inexpensive 12AX7 upgrade, try the Groove Tube 12AX7-M. When tube rolling my EE Minimax phono pre, I found that it was better than NOS Amperex, Mullard and smooth plate Telfunkens in that application.
I would ask my dealer and the importer what NOS tubes work best in that amp. For the Groove Tube 12AX7, try kcanostubes.com         For a dealer that only sells NOS 6SN7/VT-231s, try tubeseller.com
He also sells used 6SN7s, and has info about 6SN7 tube ratings.

[markC]

You may want to try switching the 12ax7's for 5751's. Great improvement in my system. N.O.S GE triple mica black plates are a good choice, readily available and still reasonably priced.

[lcrim]

Tube rolling opinions are as big a mine field as cables.  My choice in both areas has been to find the cheapest piece that sounds decent.
For 6SN7 I find that the Russian electro-harmonix (6SN7EH) are really very good and quite inexpensive.  12AX7 are very common and can cost about any price you want to pay.  I currently have a pricey RCA 12AX7A/ECC83 which sound as good as any I've tried.
hope this helps

[captain]

Thanks for the info

[jeffreybehr]

You FIRST tubed amp is a SET?  Wow, you're brave; it took me about 25 years of tubing to buy a pair of SETs.

My ony caution is to check out current-production tubes before you fall into the NOS hole.  NOS stuff MAY sould fabulous (and, of course, it may NOT sound very good at all), but some of it is VERY expensive.  I'm no GEA, but I agree with Claude about the GT 12AX7M.  Also try the Ei Gold Elite 12AX7.

[lcrim]

Somebody above said to check out new production tubes and that is great advice because it keeps tube cost reasonable.  I did some checking re: 12AX7 and the Sovtek 12AX7-LPS are very nice and inexpensive. Available here http://store.triodestore.com/12ax7lps.html
The 6SN7 EH are cheap new production tubes as well and I think they sound terrific.  http://store.triodestore.com/6sn7eheltub.html

[yeldarb]

Go to tubes and more.com and try a pair of 6681.  These are usually GE (sometimes Amperex) but most were made by RCA (rarely Mullard).  Subs for 12ax7 and won't cost you a fortune.  They also have other NOS and the usual current suspects .

[yeldarb]

Go to tubes and more.com and try a pair of 6681.  These are usually GE (sometimes Amperex) but most were made by RCA (rarely Mullard).  Subs for 12ax7 and won't cost you a fortune.  They also have other NOS and the usual current suspects .

[boead]

Here is some generalizations:

Groove Tube are TSO’s (tube shaped objects). They resemble tubes in many ways but are far from it. Groove Tubes are garbage!

I have listened to hundreds of tubes of all different types. I’m not exaggerating is the slightest. I buy and sell tubes all the time just to hear them. A good friend of mine does the same thing. Tunes react differently in different types of gear but a Mullard is a Mullard and a Amperex is an Amperex regardless of the component and its sound character (I have found) is consistent. New tubes are bright, edgy and appear to have loads of detail which is just a masking of its lack of bass and mid bass. Seriously, new tubes are crap with few exception. The Elite EL84 is wonderful for a new tube as well as the EI Elite 12AX7 but an Amperex Bugle Boy is so much better its hard to justify the cost savings. Besides, older NOS’s outlive new tubes by almost 2:1/

Most new tubes suck in my opinion and I have heard many of them. Chinese made tubes are the worst. Some Russian tubes are good and the Yugoslavian are better(best).

European tubes have a wide variety of sound to choose from. Mullard (or British made tubes) have most bass but can be a little loose and usually don’t have the best high end. German (Telefunken) tubes are the most neutral bland sounding. Sometimes this is very good and sometimes its boring and dull. Holland made tubes (Amperex bugleboy) are some of the best sounding. Good bass that’s tight, great midrange and a lively top end.

American tubes can be either VERY good (best) to not so great. Amperex and RCA made tube from New York are some of the best made (Amperex PQ’s for example). Sylvania tube are also good. With Sylvania and RCA’s you are looking for triple mica tubes, that are ultra quiet and generally superior sounding. I like black plates over grays but it’s a matter of taste.

I’d try an Amperex PQ (made in USA) with gold pins (white label/lettering) 12AX7 first. If its too lively, try a Mullard (Blackburn plant) and if its not lively enough then try an Amperex BugleBoy made in Holland.

6NS7’s? Try an American made one. Ken Rad, RCA, Sylvania.


READ THIS!! This guy, Joe is dead accurate 98% of the time.
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html


And remember to be aware of TSO’s, they are tricky little objects that cleverly disguise themselves as tubes and ruin the entire listening experience.

[ohenry]

I found this helpful for choosing 6SN7's:


http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/6sn7sound.html

[lcrim]

I warned that opinions about tubes is a minefield.
Try to have fun and not spend too much.

[captain]

I warned that opinions about tubes is a minefield.

You sure did

[Steve]

The JJ 6922 is a winner among new tubes. It beat the Amperex Bugleboy, Holland made, in a shootout.

Life seems good with them too. Only one customer, Rich Weiner, has ordered new tubes from me, and he got around 19,000 hours of life, running them 24/7 for 2 years and 3 months.

[jcoat007]

Give Andy at Vintage Tube Services a call.  He is one of the most knowledgeable guys when it come to tubes and equipment and matching them up.  

http://www.vintagetubeservices.com/

616-454-3467

Take care

Steve

[doug s.]

if ya wanna try a vintage 12ax7, i recommend matsushita.  made in japan on equipment set up by mullard.  basically the same tube as the mullard tube...   much cheaper, tho.

re: the groove-tube tubes, the 12ax7-m is the one to try; not the standard 12ax7.  but, these aren't exactly cheap...

for 6sn7's i think the rca 5692 tubes are the best.  if yure patient, you can find matched pairs for ~$100-$125...

for tube vendors, i like these guys:

http://www.vacuumtubes.com
http://vacuumtubeaudio.com/index.htm

i also like chimera labs.  vintage tube services is excellent, but top-dollar.

i have one cryo'd tungsram 12ax7 in my ase z-man tube buffer stage, that is also a good tube; vacuum tube audio specializes in cryo'ing tubes; their current-production cryo'd tubes may be worth checking out...

doug s.

[boead]

The JJ 6922 is a winner among new tubes. It beat the Amperex Bugleboy, Holland made, in a shootout.

Life seems good with them too. Only one customer, Rich Weiner, has ordered new tubes from me, and he got around 19,000 hours of life, running them 24/7 for 2 years and 3 months.

I didn’t like the JJ 6922 in my pre or my amp. I found it of the better ‘new’ tubes but still was analytical and congested in the midrange – also a bit edgy/bright. My taste, that’s all. Oh and a few of my friends tastes as well. Of the 6922’s the favorite amongst people I know is the Amperex PQ from New York (late 50’s). I also like the Holland made 6DJ8’s from the 50’s and early 60’s. Why? They have deep and tight bass, lively high end that is never edgy or bright and a midrange to die for!! Mullard 6DJ8’s have amazing mid-bass bloom which results in an also amazing midrange (vocal) range but I always find the Mullard bass to be somewhat fat and loose at times. Also the Mullard high-end is too often uncontrolled.
Many US made 6922’s, 12AX7 and 12AT7’s are thin in the bass and mid-bass, have congested midrange and are edgy and glaring on the high end although they have loads of detail. Not what I got into tubes for. The only good, maybe great sounding tube that is somewhat new was an early 90’s made EI Elite EL84EG made in the old factory that got blown up in the mid 90’s. They are remarkably similar to an early 50’s Mullard EL84.

[Steve]

It is obviously going to depend on the component, passive parts, etc used for testing.
   
But rest assured the JJ 6922s are right at the top of the list. Several have tested them, including Jon L and another, and found the JJs don't need rolling. On older/other equipment, though, other brands may sound better.
 

[sts9fan]

by new do you mean made or designed? I am thinking of buying a amp kit from DIY supply should I be concerned about the tubes they come with? http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_ella.htm