[mix4fix]

Here's a funny thought. Do you remember when you were off to college trying to fit your speakers, receiver, turntable, records, etc. into the car and then working with your roommate to set it up in your small dorm room?

Todays college kids only need their smartphone, a subscription to a streaming service and some earbuds. The real "Audiophile" in the dorm probably has a single Bluetooth speaker on their desktop, or at best a pair of 5" speakers plugged into their laptop.

On another thread, I was discussing someone's request for components to a cheap-n-cheerful type system for the kid's dorm. My main concern was the media not being taken care of by jerk room-mates. I suggested using straight digital media (MP3s).

The one thing that needs to be brought up is the headphone option. There are handfuls of small, portable DACs and head-amps to enjoy personal music. I have a USB "DAC-amp" I keep in my suitcase for when I visit family.

[newzooreview]

$27K is "flagship" level of tower speakers from a handful of quality brands.

At the end of the day, those are just overpriced bookshelf speakers.

To focus on a concrete example, have a look at Børresen Acoustics. You can go into a Børresen Acoustics dealer and listen to their various stand-mount, two-way speakers (e.g., "bookshelf") side-by-side. The Børresen X1 is $5500. The Z1 is $12,000 per pair. The O1 is $38,500 per pair. And the M1 is $100,000 per pair. All two-way, stand-mount speakers.

Børresen Acoustics is very unlikely to sell $38,500 bookshelf speakers that don't sound any better than their $12,000 bookshelf speakers that you can audition side-by-side at one of their dealers. I have also never heard anyone say that the Børresen X1 speakers sound no better than a $200 pair of Elacs or $2750 pair of MoFi SourcePoint 8s (for example).

I haven't heard any of the above speakers, and one could pick other similar examples supporting the same analysis.

[Zuman]

I bought a pair of Martin Logan CLS speakers (new) for $2995 back in 1988. They were pretty much cutting-edge by anyone's definition. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $8,000 today, which will still buy you a pair of very nice speakers, but certainly not something of the CLS' level of innovation and prestige. I suspect that a $30k pair of 2024 speakers with the CLS' sex appeal and panache would be regarded as a bargain today. Wilson's WATT/Puppy was a contemporary of the CLS, and while it was considerably more expensive, it was nothing like $300,000, which would be the 1988 "deflated" cost of Wilson's top 2024 speaker.
I think the bottom line is that many more people could afford to get into the highest echelons of audiophilia a few decades ago than can do so today, but the separation between "state-of-the-art" and merely "very good" is probably greater than it used to be, and that separation is very hard (and expensive) to achieve.

[viggen]

even the prices of products the cheap audio man is reviewing are infalting

[FullRangeMan]

Who makes these absurd prices seem fair is the audio press.
TV market offer great options with excellent image at low prices.
The prob is only in the audio market.

[WGH]

As us Boomers die off everyone else will be able to afford high end gear real soon. When I shuffle off this mortal coil I have a feeling some of my stuff will end up in the alley on Brush and Bulky pickup day. The rest will be sold for a song.

[AllanS]

You can have a great sounding system using inexpensive gear from Schiit audio.

My “place holder” system for a while has been a Bifrost feeding a Lyr3 headphone amp.  The system lacks layering, but sounds so good through the downstream NuPrime AMG STA (or Schiit Aegir depending on the mood) and Spatial M4’s that I’m really not in too much of a hurry to find the fully balanced pre I’ve been looking for.

The analogy may not fit, but I wonder if the price escalation creates room for budget friendly audio in the way that auto price increases of popular models creates space for more budget minded cars.

[Photon46]

Who makes these absurd prices seem fair is the audio press.
TV market offer great options with excellent image at low prices.
The prob is only in the audio market.

You're comparing apples and oranges. TVs and other mass market electronics have a tremendous pricing advantage because of economy of scale in manufacturing efficiency. Audio products with stratospheric pricing are built by small operations with no economy of scale. To say stratospherically priced products are unique to audio is also untrue. Almost anything marketed to the extreme top of the economic elite is similarly priced. Designer furniture, contemporary Fine Art, watches, bespoke designer clothing, automobiles, yachts, etc. all have products similarly priced. Stratospherically priced consumer goods are nothing but a reflection of the extreme divergence of economic fortunes in today's world. We're in a world economy that increasingly looks like the extreme economic wealth concentration seen during the "gilded age" of 1870/90.

[rollo]

  There are numerous reasons for high prices. Economic conditions, parts cost, availability of rare materials. The price is what it is. No one forcing anyone to buy. The only products we are selling now are the most expensive and least expensive. I look at Ferrari but realize out of my pocket book and move on.


charles

[Early B.]

Price is the overwhelming purchase consideration. Everything else is insignificant if you can't afford it.

The problem with discussing price is we have many layers of "audiophiles" based on -- guess what -- price!! For instance, some of us believe Schiit is high-end audio while others consider it as entry-level low-fi. Over time, as we move up the scale in price and sound quality, we tend to ridicule the lower tiers from whence we came. I think high-end audio prices are out of control at certain levels. Not really at the lower tiers (i.e., $2K and below @ retail per component), but the higher you go, the crazier it becomes.

Nowadays, when I look at high-end speaker prices, I ask myself, "Can I order a similar pair of custom-built speakers with better parts quality and premium finishes for a fraction of the used price?" Strangely enough, the answer is usually, "yes." I have a pair of custom-built speakers. If they were sold retail, they'd cost 5x what I paid to get them built, and would still be 3x higher if purchased used.   

[FullRangeMan]

You're comparing apples and oranges. TVs and other mass market electronics have a tremendous pricing advantage because of economy of scale in manufacturing efficiency. Audio products with stratospheric pricing are built by small operations with no economy of scale. To say stratospherically priced products are unique to audio is also untrue. Almost anything marketed to the extreme top of the economic elite is similarly priced. Designer furniture, contemporary Fine Art, watches, bespoke designer clothing, automobiles, yachts, etc. all have products similarly priced. Stratospherically priced consumer goods are nothing but a reflection of the extreme divergence of economic fortunes in today's world. We're in a world economy that increasingly looks like the extreme economic wealth concentration seen during the "gilded age" of 1870/90.

Yes its TV and hi-fi audio.
There are many justifications, all seems logical and coherent.
However these prices are killing the audio market, we are the last generation of audiophiles, after us, no millennial will accept these prices, I can see them laughing at these five figure values.

They don't have the knowledge to set up a coherent system, and probably don't will have the money to do so, they will just buy a cell phone, no cd, no dvd, just a phone to streaming free MP3 or web radio also free. Wish good luck to these US manufactures.

[mix4fix]

Yes its TV and hi-fi audio.
There are many justifications, all seems logical and coherent.
However these prices are killing the audio market, we are the last generation of audiophiles, after us, no millennial will accept these prices, I can see them laughing at these five figure values.

They don't have the knowledge to set up a coherent system, and probably don't will have the money to do so, they will just buy a cell phone, no cd, no dvd, just a phone to streaming free MP3 or web radio also free. Wish good luck to these US manufactures.

After many years going to an audio festival, there are many vendors who are not around any more. Not just stopped attending the event, but completely out of business. That could be a tell-tell sign.

[newzooreview]

Vendors come and go. That indicates nothing about the health of hi-fi.

“The global hi-fi system market is expected to grow from $13.6 billion in 2020 to $17.5 billion by 2025, with a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 5.2%. By 2033, the market is projected to reach $28.6 billion, with a CAGR of 5.4% over the forecast period.

Citations:
[1] https://www.marketsandmarkets.com/Market-Reports/hi-fi-system-market-208988066.html
[2] https://www.reportsanddata.com/report-detail/hifi-audio-products-market
[3] https://www.futuremarketinsights.com/reports/hi-fi-systems-market
[4] https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/global-home-audio-market”

[Early B.]

However these prices are killing the audio market, we are the last generation of audiophiles, after us, no millennial will accept these prices, I can see them laughing at these five figure values.

FRM has a valid point. As audiophiles get older (i.e., over 65), does our consumption of audio gear increase or decrease?

We don't have to wait for the next generation to predict the future of high-end audio. How many of us slowed down on purchasing audio gear in the past few years due to escalating prices? I don't plan to make any significant purchases in the foreseeable future, and that's a first for me in 25 years. 
 

[newzooreview]

Some folks go through cycles, some settle in with a system and don't change it until something breaks, and some keep upgrading as time and resources allow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b2IOOhJmxw

[Rusty Jefferson]

I'm a little confused by some of this discussion. "Are high end audio prices out of control?" Compared to what?  There were ridiculously expensive audio components available in 2004. Certainly not as many as today but since 2004 there has been an explosion of wealth around the world fueled by globalization. Most of that wealth has been accumulated by a fairly small percentage (10%?) at the very top. Capitalism is filling void. You may have noticed new houses continue to get larger, and therefore more expensive and more profitable for builders. People around the world are buying enormous cars that only get 12-16 mpg and cost upward of $100,000 (GMC Yukon) which like bigger houses, make more profit for corporations. I couldn't afford MBL speakers and amplifiers in 2004 anymore than I can afford them today. I didn't/dont see anything wrong with that. Nothing has changed except for the number of high end vendors trying to get a piece of the action.

[FullRangeMan]

I'm a little confused by some of this discussion. "Are high end audio prices out of control?" Compared to what?  There were ridiculously expensive audio components available in 2004. Certainly not as many as today but since 2004 there has been an explosion of wealth around the world fueled by globalization. Most of that wealth has been accumulated by a fairly small percentage (10%?) at the very top. Capitalism is filling void. You may have noticed new houses continue to get larger, and therefore more expensive and more profitable for builders. People around the world are buying enormous cars that only get 12-16 mpg and cost upward of $100,000 (GMC Yukon) which like bigger houses, make more profit for corporations. I couldn't afford MBL speakers and amplifiers in 2004 anymore than I can afford them today. I didn't/dont see anything wrong with that. Nothing has changed except for the number of high end vendors trying to get a piece of the action.

This you said applies only to US, in the rest of the world inflation is two digits, the cars that most sell are small Asian cars and most of the population can't afford to buy their own small apartment or suffer to do so. In the last couple years economic situation gotten worse, mainly in the Euro Zone, Porsche sports cars had left Germany to arrive in US, where are building a new factory, many large companies have depart from Germany recently, chemical giant BASF are going to China, other I remember are Stihl Chainsaws, the reasons for this exodus in Germany are the Green Gov recent tax increases(huge) and high energy prices.
https://www.pff.de/en/thread/2822070-porsche-withdraws-from-germany/
Porsche withdraws from Germany
Turbo1     February 13, 2024 at 9:38 PM
https://www.merkur.de/wirtscha…ellforce-zr-92829578.html
    Bitter for Germany as a business location
https://www.merkur.de/wirtschaft/autohersteller-baden-wuerttemberg-hochleistungsbatterie-gigacatory-cellforce-porsche-usa-zr-92829578.html

https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/germany-porsche-suspends-production-in-leipzig-over-russian-invasion-to-ukraine/
A poll by Germany's DIHK Chambers of Industry and Commerce of around 3,300 companies showed that 37% were considering cutting production or moving abroad, up from 31% last year and 16% in 2022. For energy-intensive industrial firms some 45% of companies were mulling slashing output or relocation, the survey showed.1 de ago. de 2024

[mick wolfe]

FRM has a valid point. As audiophiles get older (i.e., over 65), does our consumption of audio gear increase or decrease?

We don't have to wait for the next generation to predict the future of high-end audio. How many of us slowed down on purchasing audio gear in the past few years due to escalating prices? I don't plan to make any significant purchases in the foreseeable future, and that's a first for me in 25 years.

In my case and age, the slow down is quite apparent. Purchasing a major component at this point probably will only occur if something breaks. As far as rising prices are concerned, I never shop beyond a certain price point anyway. In the past, I went thru the extreme hassle of selling off an entire system to move on to the next system. Then only to realize I was itching to repeat that same losing formula (and financial beating) within a year. Over a decade ago, I began retaining the components I liked along with an occasional new component buy. The end result of this accumulation gives me the ability to rotate gear in various combinations and scratch the upgrade itch. Or as some would say, eliminate "chasing the unicorn". As always...YMMV.

[wushuliu]

I think we need to define 'high end'. To me High End is synonymous with a hefty price tag and therefore can never be 'out of control' because the point is to be exclusive.

On the flip side factors like advances in technology and China's subsidization of industry have allowed for a golden age in 'affordable hi-fi'. We've come a long way since I (yeah, me) was the first to tout the then-unknown TPA3100D2 chip as a budget marvel back in 2012 and then its successor the TPA3116. Now TPA amps are ubiquitous and breaking into proper 'audiophile' territory. Headphones, speakers, DACs, turntables (!) et al. - you can build a hell of a system now for not much money.

[Photon46]

Yes, gotta agree with Wushuliu on that point. Over the years, there's been a great deal of improvement in the quality of affordable audio components. Aspects of technical advancements pioneered in über expensive audio, photography equipment, automobiles, etc. tends to eventually trickle lower down the economic "food chain." Complaining about "out of control prices" seems to arise from lack of comprehension (or resentment) about the nature of the world's economy in today's later stage capitalism. One wonders, do owners of :



complain about "out of control prices" of: