[jermmd]

1.  The Onkyo SP1000's analog outs to a 7 channel preamp (I would get the new Parasound P2 but also consider the McCormack MAP1) or
2.  A standard DVD player (I have a Toshiba SD-5700) using the digital out to a Parasound 7100 pre/pro.

The Onkyo and the Parasound 7100 both have the same DACs (Wolfson) and all else will be the same.

The pre/pro offers bass mgmt. (I don't think this is offered by the Onkyo DVD player) and the analog preamp offers multiple analog inputs (something I need and not offered by the Parasound 7100).

Here is some info on the Parasound P2 and 7100:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/ces2005/boylan3/

Well, which way will sound better?  Would you take option 1 or 2?

Joe M.

[JoshK]

I have no idea what chip the P2 is using for volume control which would basically go a long way to determine how good it is.  The Mc-C uses 'fair' vol control chips (PGA3310 or 2310, can't remember) which is what I would think the P2 would use unless the price is $$$$.  I'd imagine the 7100 uses something similar but is more focused on the processing, so my leaning would be towards the P2, all else being equal.  No idea how either would sound.

[jermmd]

Thanks Josh.  No one really knows much about these units so your answer is about all I can ask for.  Here is a comment someone made about the Parasound P2 on another forum:

One of the biggest things to note about the multi-channel preamp coming out – the P2. It will be an extremely cost effective solution for excellent volume control for excellent sources…like a Parasound Universal Player or something similar. This unit is specified to have a full 110 db of channel separation on all 7 channels. This is unheard of in a 7.1 analog device. Even the Bryston SP1.7 (which is regarded as one of the best bypass devices available) only obtains 110 db of channel separation in 2 channel mode not 5.1 mode. A full, dual 7.1 input device with 110db separation across the board could very easily be one of the best sounding systems available as long as it has an excellent source. Why pay for an excellent source if you’re not going to use it.

I'm not sure what 110 db of channel seperation means.  What is its significance?

Joe M.

[WerTicus]

it means that if the left channel has 1db of volume coming through it then the right has -110db of the same music leaking through... which isnt a lot

[jeffreybehr]

It also means overkill to an amazing degree.  Think about this--the BEST fono cartridge MIGHT have 40dB of channel separation, and vinylfiles listen to and love these stereo devices all the time.  Eighty dB is the difference between 1 Volt and 0.0001 Volt; that's difficult to MEASURE much less hear.  One has surely no more than around 70dB of useful dynamic range in a typical domestic listening room.  How in hell is anyone going to hear the difference in noise floors 40 or 50dB LOWER than a very-quiet noise floor?

The mention of the increase in spearation from 110dB to 120dB is grossly inaudible and hilarious.  Reminds me of the Japaneses' race to unmeasurable harmonic distortion in the '70s and '80s.

BTW, I'm using an Audible Refinements Pre 5 6-channel, all-analog preamp with my Denon 2900 multichannel discplayer.  Sounds mighty fine.

germ, you don't indicate whether you're trying to build a multichannel or stereo system.  If your goal is multichannel audio from DVD-As and SACDs, a digital feed won't work--the 6-channel info is analog-only out of the player.

[ctviggen]

I always wondered about separation values like that -- what kind of equipment do you use to measure it?  Heck, you could cut one channel completely out, and the separation would still be-120dB just because of noise and the limits of the measuring equipment.

[jermmd]

germ, you don't indicate whether you're trying to build a multichannel or stereo system. If your goal is multichannel audio from DVD-As and SACDs, a digital feed won't work--the 6-channel info is analog-only out of the player.

This system will be for everything.  I will use it for 2 channel redbook CD playback (using my Xindak CD player), multichannel music (DVDA and SACD), and home theater.  The 7100 has a single 7 channel analog input/bypass that can have analog bass management applied.  All other inputs on the 7100 require A to D to A conversion. I would prefer  two 7 channel analog inputs (for my HTPC and for SACD/DVDA) and one analog 2 channel input (for my CD player).  I would use the DACs on the 7100 strictly for home theater and occasionally for my Sony CD Megachanger.

The multichannel analog preamp offers the proper inputs but doesn't offer bass management, video switching, or all the neat options a high end pre pro offers for ease of use and WAF.

There are so many variables in deciding between the 2 options that I think my question is best limited to this:
For 2 channel playback of a redbook CD, will the music sound better using a standard DVD player and high end pre pro or will the sound be superior from a high end DVD player through a multichannel Analog preamp?
And the obvious answer of listen and see is not an option.
Oh, and thanks for the explanation of
channel seperation.

[zybar]

This system will be for everything.  I will use it for 2 channel redbook CD playback (using my Xindak CD player), multichannel music (DVDA and SACD), and home theater.  The 7100 has a single 7 channel analog input/bypass that can have analog bass management applied.  All other inputs on the 7100 require A to D to A conversion. I would prefer  two 7 channel analog inputs (for my HTPC and for SACD/DVDA) and one analog 2 channel input (for my CD player).  I would use the DACs on the 7100 strictly for home thea ...

Joe,

Call me to discuss this and arrange for your visit.

George

[csero]

It also means overkill to an amazing degree.  Think about this--the BEST fono cartridge MIGHT have 40dB of channel separation, and vinylfiles listen to and love these stereo devices all the time.  Eighty dB is the difference between 1 Volt and 0.0001 Volt; that's difficult to MEASURE much less hear.  One has surely no more than around 70dB of useful dynamic range in a typical domestic listening room.  How in hell is anyone going to hear the difference in noise floors 40 or 50dB LOWER than a very-quiet noise ...

Not to mention that channel separation at your ears between a stereo speaker pair playing in a room is approaching 2-5 dB...