Re-doping an old tweeter

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 1514 times.

13mh13

Re-doping an old tweeter
« on: 21 Jun 2024, 04:59 am »
Though  AudioKarma has plenty of opinions on this topic, perhaps Danny has some alternate solutions.

Just picked up a pair of C40s that have some sort of gold/bronze doping compound on the tweeter dome's outermost layer. First I thought it may be nicotine or grime. Googling for images of this speaker, it seems the orig soft-dome tweeter did have some of "gold" coating or doping. And they all seem to be crumbling away (as in new-old-stock eBay replacements) . On mine, I can take a fine-hair art brush and delicately flick it away. It seems to be orig doping that is de-cohering This stuff may be losing integrity after all these decades (the C40 was intro'd 1987).

I believe these tweeters were made by Tonegen for many manufacturers and the dope has or is failing by now. Some similarly treated domes from other manufacturers are also doing this. It is suggested: "Without the dope film the mesh dome can’t create any significant air pressure and the output suffers dramatically."

Search for tweeter re-doping and you’ll find many threads including suggestions for repair, but I’ve yet to see the old dope compound identified. Presumably as well as providing air resistance the dope also has an effect on mechanics of the dome at high frequencies and the performance of the suspension given the dope covers this area too. I have read on other forums that this can cause HF loss because the dome no longer suspends air. I'm new to these speakers, and they are vintage. Indeed they do lack top-end sparkle. But not lot.

Danny/All ... what are my options ?

Thx!



















EdwardT

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 132
Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #1 on: 21 Jun 2024, 11:23 am »
Maybe these folks can help: https://www.simplyspeakers.com

13mh13

Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #2 on: 21 Jun 2024, 12:45 pm »
They don’t seem to offer solutions.

Cut-Throat

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 48
Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #3 on: 21 Jun 2024, 01:16 pm »
They don’t seem to offer solutions.

They don't 'seem to' or have you contacted them and they offered no solutions?

They have repaired tweeters for me and they were very reasonable and quick.

13mh13

Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #4 on: 21 Jun 2024, 03:02 pm »
They don't 'seem to' or have you contacted them and they offered no solutions?

They have repaired tweeters for me and they were very reasonable and quick.
Do they offer DIY re-doping kits? It doesn't make much effort/economic sense to send out these tweeters for this company to investigate. Especially because I only paid $125 for C40 pair set to begin with.
Now maybe if GR/Danny were to offer that option, I'd be a bit more motivated.

Cut-Throat

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 48
Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #5 on: 21 Jun 2024, 03:18 pm »
Do they offer DIY re-doping kits?

Have you asked them?  ---- Here is their e-mail address -- tom@simplyspeakers.com

Or do you want me to e-mail them for you? :roll:

AKLegal

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 330
Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #6 on: 21 Jun 2024, 06:05 pm »
You would have to send the whole speaker to Danny for an x-over rebuild. I seriously doubt he has a tweeter that could be dropped in without adjusting the X-Over. Contact the repair place first.

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2728
Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #7 on: 21 Jun 2024, 07:46 pm »
You would have to send the whole speaker to Danny for an x-over rebuild. I seriously doubt he has a tweeter that could be dropped in without adjusting the X-Over. Contact the repair place first.
This post is more about re-doping an old tweeter than upgrading/changing drivers.
That said, I don't know anything about doping tweeters, you'd have to do a little digging into the kinds of doping processed KEF used at that time.
I saw someone mention that the British manufacturers, like B&W, may have used shellac to dope tweeters in the past, if that is true, you may be able to just brush on some pure alcohol to partly dissolve and "reflow" the shellac coating.
However if it's something like polyurethane you may need a different solvent but I would reach out to KEF directly to see if that have any advice on what the tweeter was coated with and how you can restore the coating

13mh13

Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #8 on: 22 Jun 2024, 02:04 am »
you'd have to do a little digging into the kinds of doping processed KEF used at that time.
As I noted, and from the photos, the HF unit is not KEF's own. It is made in Japan and seems to be a Tonegen.

13mh13

Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #9 on: 22 Jun 2024, 02:13 am »
I did try the shellac trick ... and ... WOW! Brought these speakers back to life.
Now on to that crossover.

BTW:
I am curious about the M/B units suspension "rubber". While it still feels supple, it is not 100%. Feels a bit aged. Can one apply "Rubber Renew" or similar (acetone) to restore some life?

Danny Richie

Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #10 on: 24 Jun 2024, 09:38 pm »
I am glad you got it cleaned off. I was going to recommend trying that.

The doping was typically used to add a little mass to address some break up or ringing. Getting it all cleaned off will reduce the moving mass and bring the levels up.

13mh13

Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #11 on: 25 Jun 2024, 03:33 am »
The doping was typically used to add a little mass to address some break up or ringing. Getting it all cleaned off will reduce the moving mass and bring the levels up.
Confused by this comment.
Most of the OEM factory doping --as I stated -- had already shed off due to age. And that led to a reduction of mass. Adding 3 layers of shellac added a little mass BACK. But I assume the doping's chief purpose is to:
 (a) seal the dome (re-coat the cloth fabric, reforming original seal );
 (b) the doping's own resonance properties that tunes HF response.

The effect of re-doping is dramatic (in a positive way).

xschop

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 58
Re: Re-doping an old tweeter
« Reply #12 on: 25 Jun 2024, 12:47 pm »



Confused by this comment.
Most of the OEM factory doping --as I stated -- had already shed off due to age. And that led to a reduction of mass. Adding 3 layers of shellac added a little mass BACK. But I assume the doping's chief purpose is to:
 (a) seal the dome (re-coat the cloth fabric, reforming original seal );
 (b) the doping's own resonance properties that tunes HF response.

The effect of re-doping is dramatic (in a positive way).

I've used a drop of Vitamin A oil and spread to a sheen, with no excess. I researched to match the same molecular weight as a doping compound that was used by Morel IIRC. Did to a couple of old Polk silk domes and multiple aftermarket silk domes to smooth the response. JAT