BBE 282

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snaimpally

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BBE 282
« on: 6 Jan 2024, 03:56 am »
BBE has shrunk their circuit down into a  tiny form factor that uses a wall wart power supply. The 282 comes in 3 flavors: RCA, XLR, or 1/4" TRS. They are usually available for under $125-$150 depending on the connectors (the XLR version costs more than the RCA version). I picked up an open box unit for around $100. The Sonic Maximizer adjusts the phase relationships between the low, mid and high frequencies by adding progressively longer delay times to lower frequencies. I find that dialing in a small amount goes a long way and helps define the instruments better in the soundstage. I only use it on some source materials. I find older (unremastered) CDs and poorly mixed/mastered vinyl benefit the most.

S Clark

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #1 on: 6 Jan 2024, 04:01 am »
Exactly what is a BBE 282 ?

Phil A

Re: BBE 282
« Reply #2 on: 6 Jan 2024, 01:07 pm »

S Clark

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #3 on: 6 Jan 2024, 03:26 pm »
So it's a more up to date version of something I had in my car in high school...

SteveFord

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #4 on: 6 Jan 2024, 04:13 pm »
I used some of the BBE Sonic Maximizers in the past, they're excellent providing they mate up correctly with your preamp.
I tried one with a Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 and it caused my speakers to flutter, I'm not sure what it was doing.
With old Carver and Sunfire gear the results were really impressive.

Phil A

Re: BBE 282
« Reply #5 on: 6 Jan 2024, 04:19 pm »
I've only heard them a couple of times and not in a very long time.  Did not impress me personally.  I actually have a modded Carver C-9 Sonic Hologram Generator in a secondary system.  I don't use the system often.  The C-9 is being run through an Oppo BDP-103D so I can use the Oppo app to select most of my files (up to single rate DSD or 192kHz) and every now and then I use it just for fun.

S Clark

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #6 on: 6 Jan 2024, 04:58 pm »
I used some of the BBE Sonic Maximizers in the past, they're excellent providing they mate up correctly with your preamp.
I tried one with a Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 and it caused my speakers to flutter, I'm not sure what it was doing.
With old Carver and Sunfire gear the results were really impressive.
I still don't know what they do.  What is a audible effect of these things? Their sales blurb make it sound like a loudness switch on an old receiver, boosting low and high frequencies.   

Phil A

Re: BBE 282
« Reply #7 on: 6 Jan 2024, 06:17 pm »
I still don't know what they do.  What is a audible effect of these things? Their sales blurb make it sound like a loudness switch on an old receiver, boosting low and high frequencies.

That was my understanding and take from what I heard (many moons back).  Many moons back (almost 45 years ago) in my early days of having separates, I had a lot of devices which massaged the sound.  I grew out of that phase a long time ago.  The only thing I have now along those lines is the modded Sonic Holographer in a seldom used secondary system.  At one point from the mid 1970s to early 1980s I worked in NYC near Harveys Sound (https://www.informationweek.com/it-leadership/sad-day-for-radio-row-as-harvey-s-45th-street-store-closes).  They had equipment with a focus on high end audio and the also what was geared towards studios.  So I got to audition lots of those type of devices.  I had surround sound in my systems before Dolby and stereo TV or VCRs were available.  I used one of these -  https://akdatabase.org/AKview/albums/userpics/10007/KOSS%20K_4DS.pdf   with an SAE outboard amp and rear speakers and a Pioneer dual mono TV tuner.  Back then vinyl and cassettes were my main music sources.

snaimpally

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #8 on: 9 Jan 2024, 12:11 am »
I still don't know what they do.  What is a audible effect of these things? Their sales blurb make it sound like a loudness switch on an old receiver, boosting low and high frequencies.

From my original post "The Sonic Maximizer adjusts the phase relationships between the low, mid and high frequencies by adding progressively longer delay times to lower frequencies." It works slightly differently than, but has a similar effect to, the Aphex Aural exciter (though you may not know what that is either).

A loudness switch boosts high and low frequencies according to the Fletcher-Munson curve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour). Thus, a loudness control does not change phase relationships - it boosts highs and lows because based on how humans perceive frequencies at lower volumes.

To answer your question "What is a audible effect of these things?" I can describe it but it will be meaningless because the effect is subtle - I find instruments more clearly defined in the soundstage. If you have a Guitar Center or other music store nearby, check if they sell BBE and ask if you can hear it in action.

Like with many things in audio, it is hard to describe but easier to hear it.

snaimpally

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #9 on: 9 Jan 2024, 12:23 am »
So it's a more up to date version of something I had in my car in high school...


No. FYI, I'm in Austin, TX. You are welcome to come over and hear it.

S Clark

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #10 on: 9 Jan 2024, 12:55 am »
Ok.  A recording should never out of phase from one range to another.  They are all recorded as they arrive at the microphone, and they all generated simultaneously and travel at the same speed.  Phase issues are usually at the speaker, often from multiple driver speakers with crossovers.  If you are changing phase relationships from lows, mids, and treble it will certainly change the sound.  And perhaps you can improve on a particular crossover designer... but that's like redesigning a crossover.  It's not for the faint of heart or the inexperienced.   
I do appreciate the offer, and if I'm in Austin soon, I'll drop you a note.   It's always educational to hear other systems.   

snaimpally

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #11 on: 7 May 2024, 01:16 am »
Ok.  A recording should never out of phase from one range to another.  They are all recorded as they arrive at the microphone, and they all generated simultaneously and travel at the same speed.  Phase issues are usually at the speaker, often from multiple driver speakers with crossovers.  If you are changing phase relationships from lows, mids, and treble it will certainly change the sound.  And perhaps you can improve on a particular crossover designer... but that's like redesigning a crossover.  It's not for the faint of heart or the inexperienced.   
I do appreciate the offer, and if I'm in Austin soon, I'll drop you a note.   It's always educational to hear other systems.

Your explanation is oversimplistic. Have you ever been in a recording studio? I have recorded in several studios (I play percussion). Each instrument has its own microphone and the drums usually have multiple microphones.

I posted in "cheap and cheerful" because you can get one of the BBE units used for around $100 plus shipping so guess what - you could buy one, try it, and hear it for yourself for around $100. And if you don't like how it makes your audio sound, you could probably sell it for close to what you paid for it and be out $5-10.

FullRangeMan

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #12 on: 7 May 2024, 01:48 am »
The processors of Barcus Berry Elecronics are usually used in Radio Stations to enhance the music and in musical instruments I had only see it used in electric violins.

fredgarvin

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #13 on: 7 May 2024, 04:34 pm »
From my original post "The Sonic Maximizer adjusts the phase relationships between the low, mid and high frequencies by adding progressively longer delay times to lower frequencies." It works slightly differently than, but has a similar effect to, the Aphex Aural exciter (though you may not know what that is either).

A loudness switch boosts high and low frequencies according to the Fletcher-Munson curve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour). Thus, a loudness control does not change phase relationships - it boosts highs and lows because based on how humans perceive frequencies at lower volumes.

To answer your question "What is a audible effect of these things?" I can describe it but it will be meaningless because the effect is subtle - I find instruments more clearly defined in the soundstage. If you have a Guitar Center or other music store nearby, check if they sell BBE and ask if you can hear it in action.

Like with many things in audio, it is hard to describe but easier to hear it.
Years back I had their guitar pedal version for awhile, it was nice effect for cleaner tones. The rack version was very popular.

Machine-De-Zine

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #14 on: 9 Jun 2024, 07:00 pm »
From my original post "The Sonic Maximizer adjusts the phase relationships between the low, mid and high frequencies by adding progressively longer delay times to lower frequencies." It works slightly differently than, but has a similar effect to, the Aphex Aural exciter (though you may not know what that is either).

A loudness switch boosts high and low frequencies according to the Fletcher-Munson curve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour). Thus, a loudness control does not change phase relationships - it boosts highs and lows because based on how humans perceive frequencies at lower volumes.

To answer your question "What is a audible effect of these things?" I can describe it but it will be meaningless because the effect is subtle - I find instruments more clearly defined in the soundstage. If you have a Guitar Center or other music store nearby, check if they sell BBE and ask if you can hear it in action.

Like with many things in audio, it is hard to describe but easier to hear it.

I have always been drawn to “sleeper” gear that deliveres a higher, often surprisingly satisfying performance level than the reputation of that brand might otherwise suggest.
Take the lowly Sanyo JCX-2900K receiver for example, basically a “low dollar” Sansui 9090DB.
I stumbled across a leftover Harbinger 18” PA sub at G.C. 15 years ago. I wanted to put together a fairly high output little system for dirt cheap to setup at the huge machine shop at work, just to spice up the ludicrously long hours I was putting in there.
Paid next to nothing for that single sub, had a leftover crown MicroTech 1200 amp sitting around, then combined with the above mentioned 120WPC Sanyo rcvr, plus a pair of old Yamaha S115 club IV tops, all I needed was a cheap X-over to complete. Added later an old portable Sony discman and did the music streaming off my iPhone.
My buddy at Guitar Center recommended a brand new BBE Sonic Maximizer Max-X3 for under $100 to be used as a decent affordable X-over.
So I installed this system at the shop in my work bay, a huge cavernous steel and cement building with machinery and heavy trucks running through the area 24/7.
That system stayed in hard service for 15 yrs and brought a LOT of smiles, upon my retirement I relocated this entire system into a local music store where it continues to make happy faces.
I bought the BBE primarily to be used as a X-over, but engaging and disengaging the processing button to see what people like better, absolutely 100% of the time people consistently prefer the maximized function on, so I leave it that way.

I have several Aphex Aural Exciters w/Optical Big Bottom (newest/last version) at home and found that the BBE Max-X3 does an “OK” job mimicking the Aphex, but not as smooth or pleasing.

Like you said, not so easy to explain what either one is actually doing or how, but absolutely everyone can hear the effects of both devices, and it should be restated, these effects can be overdone so be mindful when making adjustments.

snaimpally

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Re: BBE 282
« Reply #15 on: 25 Jun 2024, 01:54 am »
The processors of Barcus Berry Elecronics are usually used in Radio Stations to enhance the music and in musical instruments I had only see it used in electric violins.

BBE started out making pickups for acoustic instruments, like violins. They later branched out to other products like the enhancer. BBE makes multiple products - the electric violin product is not an enhancer - it is a pickup.