[I.Greyhound Fan]

The same if not better performance can be had for pennies on the dollar getting one of Danny Richie's upgrade kits over at GR-Research. In fact, considering Danny's vast knowledge and experience over the many years of redesigning and tweaking crossovers for various high-end loudspeaker manufacturers, I'm willing to bet there's been a lot more engineering and tweaking that's gone into his upgrades than Magnepan's own upgrades, and thus more gains/improvements from Danny's upgrades.

And you know this how?  I am just playing devils advocate.  Magnepan designs their own speakers and I assume have done a lot of R&D for these upgrades.  And besides, not everyone is willing to take apart a Magnepan and do the upgrades themselves.  I considered doing the GR upgrade for my 1.6's and I am handy with a soldering iron but I am not willing to take the chance that I break something.

[SteveFord]

From speaking to them, Magnepan has tried just about everything.
If they can hear the benefits and the cost isn't too outrageous, that's what comes out next.

[Saturn94]

The 1.7X is $4000 more than the 1.7i exc.

I found this.

https://www.audioexcellence.ca/blogs/audio-excellence/unveiling-the-magnepan-x-upgrade-program-elevate-your-sonic-journey-with-the-mg2-7i

The price of the X upgrades does seem very steep.    I can’t see the upgrades listed being anywhere worth the premium charged. 

[SteveFord]

Nothing on their website.
Perhaps by the Spring thaw...

If this X treatment is going to be $4000 (shipping not included), I don't think they'll have too many takers.

[Letitroll98]

A lot of people have done similar mods themselves, often with outboard crossovers.  I can't see anything done in that area being worth $4k.  The other question might be why hasn't Magnapan put better components in their speakers all along?  Other speaker companies do it without massive retail price increases.  My Meadowlark hot rod speakers did the exact same mod for an additional $300, albeit at the time of manufacturer.

[Chops]

And you know this how?  I am just playing devils advocate.  Magnepan designs their own speakers and I assume have done a lot of R&D for these upgrades.  And besides, not everyone is willing to take apart a Magnepan and do the upgrades themselves.  I considered doing the GR upgrade for my 1.6's and I am handy with a soldering iron but I am not willing to take the chance that I break something.

I don't know this, but am pretty sure "this" would be the case. It's what Danny is known for. For years, Danny's had loudspeaker manufacturers come to him for either helping them in the crossover design or leaving it completely up to him to come up with the design... Or to do tweaks to the design to make them better.

Magnepan's crossovers are very basic. I don't believe there's any correction circuits in their "stock" designs to take care of certain dips or peaks, etc, etc. They are just a simple dividing network for bass, midrange and treble (or bass panel, tweeter & super tweeter) as they call it.

Who knows though?... I could be totally wrong and Magnepan addresses the same exact issues that Danny did. Maybe they bought one of his kits and called it their own. I have no idea. But one thing I do know is that you get a heck of a lot more bang for the buck giving Danny $409 for his 1.7/1.7i kit vs giving Magnepan $4000 for their 1.7/1.7i kit to pretty much reach the same result.

I know that Danny's design puts a 2nd order slope on the tweeter as well as run the speaker as a true 2-way (running both "voice coils" in the tweeter in series). I've read elsewhere that Magnepan did the same for one customer's upgrade. I don't know if they do that automatically or just upon request.

Either way, if you don't feel comfortable digging into your loudspeakers, I'm sure you can find a family member, a nearby forum member, a friend or some local shop to perform the upgrades for you for a whole lot less than $4k.

And that's the point of my entire argument really. It's the absurd prices Magnepan is charging for these upgrades. Maybe $1k at best plus shipping both ways, but NOT $4k.

Anywho...

[SteveFord]

According to this, they're not exactly quoting a price:
https://www.audioexcellence.ca/products/magnepan-x-upgrade-options

I just ordered some new motorcycle tires and an indoor air purifier so I'm out.

[RonN5]

I'm happy they don't have an upgrade available for the LRS+....I don't have anything to stress over 

[Chops]

I'm happy they don't have an upgrade available for the LRS+....I don't have anything to stress over 

I bet they'll come out with an upgrade for the LRS+ way before they ever come out with that "woofer-not-subwoofer" thing they keep blabbering about.

[SteveFord]

Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm..."

[Saturn94]

Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm..."

They seriously need someone who knows how to set up a proper website.  Their website has been a mess for a long time.

BTW, isn’t that Latin?  Is that the webpage for the Vatican? 

[SteveFord]

Isn't 12/31 when they hold the Blessing Of The Planars?

[Saturn94]

Isn't 12/31 when they hold the Blessing Of The Planars?

 

[audio.bill]

BTW, isn’t that Latin?  Is that the webpage for the Vatican? 

It's Lorem Ipsum, dummy text of the printing and typesetting industry. https://www.lipsum.com/

[Saturn94]

It's Lorem Ipsum, dummy text of the printing and typesetting industry. https://www.lipsum.com/

Ah!  I learned something new today. 

[SteveFord]

So did I but the Vatican tie in was more entertaining.
Guess we'll see what the new FAQ page looks like sometime next year.

[josh358]

They've done direct sales on the 1.7s before and then all those years with the MMGs.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the deal is with the new speakers, especially the $4000 price hike between the 2.7i and the 2.7x.
Also, is this list price or retail where you haggle?

Haggle, which as you know is a departure from Magnepan's traditional philosophy. The thing is, the dealers wanted more margin because customers like to haggle. So now you get to pay the same as you did before, but you have to haggle with a dealer before you do. Thank you, dealers. </sarcasm mode>

[josh358]

I dont understand how this manufacturer still in the business, since the 1980s I see they have the same product:
86dB and 4ohms (3 ohms most of the range) presence of a Crossover more 2 protection Fuses and more midrange and tweeter attenuators. This will require a monster huge amp stable at 2 ohms impedance for safe operation.

If they don't know how to improve the product should talk to someone who knows how to do like Bob Carver or Maggie could licence the great sound Carver Amazing Ribbon 48 or 60 inches tall, 88dB, 8ohms, range 200 to 40kHz as Gilmore Audio do in the past, Amazing dont needed a Crossover in 1992($2400 48inches). Too bad they are stagnant for so long.

Maggies may look the same on the outside, but over the years there have been major changes under the hood, probably the most dramatic being the replacement of the original wire conductors with foil. Most recently, the mysterious "+" technology that dramatically improved the tweeter performance of the LRS.

They're big on mystery. This one has leaked a bit, but since I'm not allowed to discuss it I can only give a wink and a nod.

They will also have the most significant product introductions in -- well, decades -- soon: The CSS, which packs the performance of the gigantic 30.7 into a panel only 12" wide and a small woofer. There will also be an economical dipole sub.

And if Wendell Diller, their head of product development, gets his way, there will be major cosmetic changes on the horizon, too -- the challenge there is that when a company changes the appearance of its product, older customers aren't always happy! These will be accompanied by major changes in the internal construction of the loudspeaker -- basically, a trickle-down from the top-of-the-line CSS -- and they'll be working in the opposite direction, up from the LRS+, with another new type of internal construction. You can expect all speakers in their line to slim down by a few inches, news that will be welcome to long-suffering spouses.

By the way, Jim Croft, one of the designers of the Carver Amazings, now works for Magnepan, and was Wendell's and my partner in crime when we designed the CSS. He was also involved with the development of the BG drivers that are used in the Carvers and some other loudspeakers. If there's anyone in the world who knows more about planar design than Jim, I haven't met him. (I guess I should add that while I was one of the designers of the CSS, I don't actually work for Magnepan -- I'm just a retired audio engineer/audiophile with time on his hands, LOL.)

Finally -- yes, they could increase the efficiency of their speakers, but that would mean using neodynium magnets and those are expensive. Wendell's feeling on that is that it's less expensive to buy a high power amplifier than it would be to buy a more efficient Maggie with neodynium magnets. There are planar speakers from other manufacturers that are efficient, but they cost an arm and a leg.

[josh358]

I don't know this, but am pretty sure "this" would be the case. It's what Danny is known for. For years, Danny's had loudspeaker manufacturers come to him for either helping them in the crossover design or leaving it completely up to him to come up with the design... Or to do tweaks to the design to make them better.

Magnepan's crossovers are very basic. I don't believe there's any correction circuits in their "stock" designs to take care of certain dips or peaks, etc, etc. They are just a simple dividing network for bass, midrange and treble (or bass panel, tweeter & super tweeter) as they call it.

Who knows though?... I could be totally wrong and Magnepan addresses the same exact issues that Danny did. Maybe they bought one of his kits and called it their own. I have no idea. But one thing I do know is that you get a heck of a lot more bang for the buck giving Danny $409 for his 1.7/1.7i kit vs giving Magnepan $4000 for their 1.7/1.7i kit to pretty much reach the same result.

I know that Danny's design puts a 2nd order slope on the tweeter as well as run the speaker as a true 2-way (running both "voice coils" in the tweeter in series). I've read elsewhere that Magnepan did the same for one customer's upgrade. I don't know if they do that automatically or just upon request.

Either way, if you don't feel comfortable digging into your loudspeakers, I'm sure you can find a family member, a nearby forum member, a friend or some local shop to perform the upgrades for you for a whole lot less than $4k.

And that's the point of my entire argument really. It's the absurd prices Magnepan is charging for these upgrades. Maybe $1k at best plus shipping both ways, but NOT $4k.

Anywho...

The main limitation on the sophistication of Magnepan's crossovers is that you can only fit so much in a narrow panel! Older models actually had more complex crossovers, but they required an external crossover box that as those who remember them know was PITA. The "X" models get around this by putting a box on the back.

Honestly, speaking from experience, the way to go isn't with any of this, but with bi-amping and an electronic crossover. Maggies just love to be bi-amped. Here's the paradox -- the current x.7 models, the ones with the first over crossover entirely within the panel, can't be bi-amped, not without opening them up and rewiring them, anyway. Unfortunately, only a handful of customers bi-amped, and they decided that the benefits of a series crossover outweighed the ability to bi-amp.

Magnepan will make pretty much any mod you want to the speakers. Needless to say, they charge for the privilege!

[josh358]

I bet they'll come out with an upgrade for the LRS+ way before they ever come out with that "woofer-not-subwoofer" thing they keep blabbering about.

Nah, I know what they're discussing and a new LRS+ ain't on the list. There will certainly be .8's, but it's still at the stage of deciding what the changes will be, so I wouldn't look for them soon. The big thing that will affect the LRS+ is a low-cost dipole woofer. The combination of the dipole woofer from the CSS with the LRS+ is apparently amazing, but that woofer will be too expensive, so they're developing a less expensive one.