[AdamZuf]

Hey Rick
I have the Carnelian and I'm very happy about them, truely increadible speakers.
The Carnelian, as you told me once, are suitable for medium to big sized rooms.

The thing is that I would like my speakers to suit quite a small room, not just the living room, and also suitable for studio monitoring and near field listening, as I'll move away next year to the Polytechnic to study sound engineering.
Can one have both worlds in a versatile setup?
What do you think about the Tanzanite with a subwoofer?

What are the tradeoffs when going from the Carnelian to the Tanzanite+subwoofer? (in a medium to large room)
I still don't know the size of the room I'm about to live in.. what is the minimum size for the Tanzenite and a Whomp?

You once told me that the Carnelian started as a monitor, not a floorstander, what do you think about that design compared to the Tanzanite, considering my needs?

Any other relevant information is welcome, off coarse..
Thanks

Adam

[MarkM]

Another option would be the RC3R.   I recently converted my Carnelians to the RC3R for the exact reason you are considering.  Perfect size for the room and the bass extension is impressive.  The Carnelian does have a tad more in room extension, but the difference is not that much.   You can easily get by without a sub, one less thing to move in your case.  

Plans are to use the Seas W22 for a potential RC4 project in the fall.    Larger Music only room will be complete then.

[Rick Craig]

Hey Rick
I have the Carnelian and I'm very happy about them, truely increadible speakers.
The Carnelian, as you told me once, are suitable for medium to big sized rooms.

The thing is that I would like my speakers to suit quite a small room, not just the living room, and also suitable for studio monitoring and near field listening, as I'll move away next year to the Polytechnic to study sound engineering.
Can one have both worlds in a versatile setup?
What do you think about the Tanzanite with a subwoofer?

What are the tradeoffs when going from the Carnelian to the Tanzanite+subwoofer? (in a medium to large room)
I still don't know the size of the room I'm about to live in.. what is the minimum size for the Tanzenite and a Whomp?

You once told me that the Carnelian started as a monitor, not a floorstander, what do you think about that design compared to the Tanzanite, considering my needs?

Any other relevant information is welcome, off coarse..
Thanks

Adam

The main difference between the Carnelian and Tanzanite is that the Carnelian has better bass extension and impact. Tonally they are very similar. Either one can be converted to a smaller sealed box for use with a subwoofer. The Whomp is designed to cross @ 75-80hz and without an active high pass filter the Tanzanite will acoustically roll off at the same point. The sealed Carnelian will have a -3db point in the low to mid 50's so an outboard electronic crossover (or bass management via preamp/receiver) is needed to cross the Whomp lower.

For a smaller room either combination will work fine but the size of the Tanzanite is probably better suited for this environment. Being able to locate the subwoofer to a corner also helps even out the room modes.

Hope this helps,

Rick

[AdamZuf]

The main difference between the Carnelian and Tanzanite is that the Carnelian has better bass extension and impact.

Will the Tanzanite + sub still suffer from lack of impact, compared to the Carnelian? I just want to know if I'm making any tradeoffs.
It would be logical to ask how does the two compare when both have Whomp subs, just in order to understand better.

Tonally they are very similar. Either one can be converted to a smaller sealed box for use with a subwoofer.

You meen I can mod the Carnelian not to be a floorstander anymore, or are you just talking about the upward shift of the horizontal brace inside the Carnelian?

The Whomp is designed to cross @ 75-80hz and without an active high pass filter the Tanzanite will acoustically roll off at the same point. The sealed Carnelian will have a -3db point in the low to mid 50's so an outboard electronic crossover (or bass management via preamp/receiver) is  ...

Oh, I don't get a crossover with the Whomp, I see.

Excuse me for my ignorance, but how does the system wiring goes with the Whomp? Do I need an amplifier with a subwoofer output?
(I never had a sub nor had a chance to see how stuff work in this area)

So you think that the Carnelian are just as good as the Tanzenite as near field monitors, soundwise?

[Rick Craig]

Rick Craig wrote:
The main difference between the Carnelian and Tanzanite is that the Carnelian has better bass extension and impact.

Will the Tanzanite + sub still suffer from lack of impact, compared to the Carnelian? I just want to know if I'm making any tradeoffs.
It would be logical to ask how does the two compare when both have Whomp subs, just in order to understand better.
Quote:
Tonally they are very similar. Either one can be converted to a smaller sealed box for use with a subwoofer.

You meen I can mod the Carnelian not to be a floorstander anymore, or are you just talking about the upward shift of the horizontal brace inside the Carnelian?
Quote:
The Whomp is designed to cross @ 75-80hz and without an active high pass filter the Tanzanite will acoustically roll off at the same point. The sealed Carnelian will have a -3db point in the low to mid 50's so an outboard electronic crossover (or bass management via preamp/receiver) is ...

Oh, I don't get a crossover with the Whomp, I see.

Excuse me for my ignorance, but how does the system wiring goes with the Whomp? Do I need an amplifier with a subwoofer output?
(I never had a sub nor had a chance to see how stuff work in this area)

So you think that the Carnelian are just as good as the Tanzenite as near field monitors, soundwise?

If you plan to use the Whomp as a subwoofer then the Tanzanite will work fine. The Carnelian sealed version is too large IMO to be a stand-mounted design. The 8" woofer gives you a little more output if you like to play things really loud.

The subwoofer amp can be connected via a line level output, sub output, or high level amplifier output. For nearfield listening either design is fine but again, the Tanzanite's cabinet size is more practical.

[AdamZuf]

mmm....not all questions answered?

[Rick Craig]

mmm....not all questions answered?

Which questions were not answered by my post at the bottom?

[AdamZuf]

A.
Will the Tanzanite + sub still suffer from lack of impact, compared to the Carnelian? I just want to know if I'm making any tradeoffs.
It would be logical to ask how does the two compare when both have Whomp subs, just in order to understand better.

B.
You meen I can mod the Carnelian not to be a floorstander anymore (but a monitor), or are you just talking about the upward shift of the horizontal brace inside the Carnelian, when going from the ported version to the sealed?

[Rick Craig]

A.
Will the Tanzanite + sub still suffer from lack of impact, compared to the Carnelian? I just want to know if I'm making any tradeoffs.
It would be logical to ask how does the two compare when both have Whomp subs, just in order to understand better.

>>> With the subwoofer there won't be a lack of impact. Either speaker is fine with the subwoofer but the Carnelian needs to have a high pass filter with that combination.

B.
You meen I can mod the Carnelian not to be a floorstander anymore (but a monitor), or are you just talking about the upward shift of the horizontal brace inside the Carnelian, when going from the ported version to the sealed?

>>> You can make it a sealed box for either a floorstanding or monitor design; however,  in my opinion the cabinet is a little too large to make for an aesthetically pleasing speaker as a monitor.

[AdamZuf]

What's the difference between a sealed floorstander Carnelian to a monitor style Carnelian, soundwise?

Thanks
Adam

[DSK]

Hi Rick,

Does the Tanzanite image better than the Carnelian because of the narrower baffle?

Cheers,
Darren.

[Rick Craig]

What's the difference between a sealed floorstander Carnelian to a monitor style Carnelian, soundwise?

Thanks
Adam

No audible difference.

[Rick Craig]

Hi Rick,

Does the Tanzanite image better than the Carnelian because of the narrower baffle?

Cheers,
Darren.

No. The narrow baffle / imaging myth has been arround for a long time. I think part of the reason is that in many commercial designs with narrow baffles there is little or no baffle step response compensation applied. This gives a false sense of improved imaging because of the forward upper midrange and lower treble.

[DSK]

No. The narrow baffle / imaging myth has been arround for a long time. I think part of the reason is that in many commercial designs with narrow baffles there is little or no baffle step response compensation applied. This gives a false sense of improved imaging because of the forward upper midrange and lower treble.

Thanks Rick. So, would I be correct in deducing that a sealed Carnelian + sealed sub would sound the same as a sealed Tanzanite + sealed sub EXCEPT that the Carnelian combo would provide greater dynamics in the upper bass and lower mids (due to the 8 incher), and would allow the sub LP filter to be set at  a lower frequency (around 60-65hz instead of 80-85hz) thereby providing cleaner mid/upper bass as well as less aural locatability of the sub and greater ability to get by with one sealed sub instead of one per channel? ...all this assumes no HP filter on the SEAS drivers.

Are there any sonic advantages to the Tanzanite combo?

[Bobby]

I have been lucky enough to own both the Carnelians and
the Tanzanites.  I totally agree with Rick's statement
that they are VERY similar tonally.  I feel that both
speakers are outstanding and I don't think you can go
wrong with either.  In a smaller room (average size of a
spare bedroom) I feel that the Carnelians can be a bit
over whelming from a size point of view, but will still
sound good.  I think the Tanzanites are perfect for a
smaller size listening room (currently where I am using
them) and sound really good even without a sub.  For the
types of music that I listen to regularly, I am extremely
happy with the ported version of the Tanzanites without
a sub.  I am huge fan of Rick's speakers and you really
cannot go wrong with either the Carnelians or
Tanzanites.  I have tried out more speakers than I care
to admit publicly, but, once I listened to Rick's
speakers I was hooked and I new I would always own a
pair. =) I just received the Tanzanites a few weeks ago
and I plan to post a review in the near future so
please keep an eye out =)

[Rick Craig]

Thanks Rick. So, would I be correct in deducing that a sealed Carnelian + sealed sub would sound the same as a sealed Tanzanite + sealed sub EXCEPT that the Carnelian combo would provide greater dynamics in the upper bass and lower mids (due to the 8 incher), and would allow the sub LP filter to be set at  a lower frequency (around 60-65hz instead of 80-85hz) thereby providing cleaner mid/upper bass as well as less aural locatability of the sub and greater ability to get by with one sealed sub instead of on ...

Yes, with the 8" you have a little better dynamic capability. As far as the crossover point I think 80hz works very well and going to 60hz may not help that much. Localization really will depend on the slope and level setting.

Rick

[DSK]

Rick, thanks again for you helpfulness and patience as I figure out whether the Carnelian is likely the best speaker to suit my goals. Just 2 more questions please  

Re-reading earlier posts in this thread, I notice you said that the 'sealed' Carnelian is -3db at approx 50-55hz, so I guess the sub XO could actually be set to around 45hz rather than the 60hz I mentioned (or 75-80hz for the Tanzanite). I'm a little puzzled as to your previous comment "...As far as the crossover point I think 80hz works very well and going to 60hz may not help that much. Localization really will depend on the slope and level setting...".  My sealed sub's LP filter is 24db/oct but I could set it to maximum to remove it from circuit and implement an external 12db/oct filter to better match the sealed Carnelian's rolloff. Surely the lower I can set the sub's LP rolloff, the cleaner and more transient the bass will be as it will be comprised of more of the 8" SEAS driver and less of the 12" subwoofer driver? Am I missing something?

Earlier you mentioned that the 'sealed' Carnelian can be made smaller. I presume by this you mean that for a sealed box Q of 0.7071, less internal capacity is required. Presumably, you normally just move an internal wall to reduce the capacity on the sealed version. I'm wondering, to increase WAF, could the reduction in internal capacity be made by making the baffle/speaker narrower ...or would this change diffraction and require crossover changes?

[Rick Craig]

Rick, thanks again for you helpfulness and patience as I figure out whether the Carnelian is likely the best speaker to suit my goals. Just 2 more questions please  

Re-reading earlier posts in this thread, I notice you said that the 'sealed' Carnelian is -3db at approx 50-55hz, so I guess the sub XO could actually be set to around 45hz rather than the 60hz I mentioned (or 75-80hz for the Tanzanite). I'm a little puzzled as to your previous comment "...As far as the crossover point I think 80hz ...

It's really hard to say which you might prefer without actually experimenting with the speakers and subwoofer. With some subwoofers the lower setting may actually create some peaking in the bandpass that would have a negative impact.

The cabinet divider is adjusted for a smaller internal volume but you also can make the baffle more narrow. This will affect the response very little and no crossover change would be needed.