Full Range Drivers

mca · « **on:** 25 Apr 2005, 06:05 pm »

I came across an article about a month ago for some new low cost full range drivers on the 6Moons website in the News Beams section.

I went back to look into ordering a pair for use with my SI amp, but the info is no longer on the site. I contacted Srajan, but he has no information on them.

Did anyone see these drivers? Do you know the brand and/or where they can be ordered from? If not these drivers, what are some other good sources?

I really want to try building some simple speakers to use with my Sonic Impact amp, but don't want to spend much money

miklorsmith · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Apr 2005, 06:27 pm »

Don't know the ones you specify. For less than $300, you can build some bass reflex boxes for Fostex 206E drivers that will blow your mind. Put a 5-ohm non-inductive resistor on the positive lead and there isn't much these won't do Very well. The drivers are available at Madisound for about $85 ea.

Use the TNT article as a base, and there is a host of tweaks you can see in "The Lab" forum that will bring the performance of these beyond your wildest expectations. They won't do heavy bass, but it's very tuneful and satisfying. Subs are a great filler if you need the heavy punch.

Smaller drivers work well too, but are even more limited in volume and kick, though have other tradeoffs. I'd start with the 206's and see where that takes you.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Apr 2005, 06:31 pm »

You could also consider a set of the WR125's from DIY Cable - I built a simple set of bass reflex boxes, per their sizing suggestions at the site, and am pleased. Not the best, but a great entry point, for $69 each as I recall...

The Jordan 4.5 inchers would also be nice, and are only a little more I think.

Fostex make some excellent entry level ones too - there are plenty of choices, and many satisfied people using different techniques.

Have fun!

mca · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Apr 2005, 12:43 am »

Well, by looking back through my IE history file, I found the website that I was asking about.

http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/

The speakers are the Audio Nirvana fullrange speakers. The 6.5" pair goes for $98 and the 8" pair goes for $118. They will also send full plans and parts list on a choice of speaker enclosures. They seem worth a try at that price

The monster PAudio speakers look interesting too

mcgsxr · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Apr 2005, 02:55 am »

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried the 8 inch drivers... they appear to be pretty good, and for the dough...

JeffB · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Apr 2005, 05:52 am »

Dmason has said good things about the Ciare CH250 in open baffles. The drivers are $50 each.
Available from www.assistanceaudio.com

mca · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 May 2005, 03:04 am »

I ordered a pair of the Audio Nirvana 8 inch drivers today along with plans to build the 1.3 speaker cabinet. I'll be sure to post my impressions when I get them built

John Ashman · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 May 2005, 03:15 am »

Would it be politically incorrect to inform everyone that there's no such thing as a "full range driver", especially when one considers distortion and dispersion in addition to FR?

mcgsxr · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 May 2005, 03:58 am »

would "wide range" be more appropriate? 7-8 octaves is pretty wide, though as you point out, not full...

JLM · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 May 2005, 02:18 pm »

First, there is no "perfect" speaker. Far easier to have a perfect anything else in audio as a speaker is a transducer (changes energy from one form into another) and must do so under variable loadings and environments (even a phono cart functions under designed conditions).

So all speakers exhibit distortions, one is simply left to pick their poison(s). Single driver speakers do much right (no crossover distortions, direct loading of the amp, simplier signal path/design, point source imaging, and typically higher efficiency).

One of the first issues to be addressed with single drivers is frequency range. Marketing folks have hyped 20 - 20,000 Hz as a minimum for "full range" performance for decades to the point that now most accept this as fact. Some golden ears and HT lovers would push this range even farther.

Decades ago when amps were all less than 10 watts speaker efficiency was of paramount importance. Horn loading was used and is still the most efficient speaker design known. But bass horns get huge (think of closet to garage in size). So a more limited frequency range was acceptable. One of the often quoted was 80 - 8,000 Hz. Nowadays with powered subs, bigger amps, and better materials we can indeed reproduce 20 - 20,000 Hz and beyond.

Another factor to be addressed is what kinds of music do you listen to. Many musical forms don't require more than say 60 - 15,000 Hz. The room in use is another consideration and bigger is better for deep bass.

However most will agree that midrange (say the 5 octaves from 125 - 4000 Hz) as being the most important. You cannot listen to music and avoid this range. This is the most critical range to "get right". Nearly all multiple driver designs will crossover in this range and therefore add crossover distortion, multiple point sources, phasing mix ups, and voicing from different drivers.

As stated above, literally every driver is more properly described as being limited or extended range. My speakers use a Fostex F200A driver that is rated 30 - 20,000 Hz and I'm very happy with them. The highs (above say 4,000 Hz) do beam, but if you sit near the sweet spot it can actually be a benefit as it limits room interaction. Bass covers everything in unamplified music except for deep organ. And they make for a very purist, simplier is better solution.

mca · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 May 2005, 03:55 pm »

What does John prefer that I call them? How about $125.00 for the pair? At that price, I don't care if they are "full range"

Dmason · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 May 2005, 04:12 pm »

They were intended to provide a "lower cost" approach to the Fostex FE-E speakers, which no one thought of as expensive. Until David Dicks sees fit to publish frequency response plots, the proof of their performance, at least from a technical standpoint, I wouldn't touch them. They do have nice big magnets. Good Luck and let us know.

JLM · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 May 2005, 11:07 am »

David Dicks is problematic to deal with. He's been caught using tone controls without informing listeners. He won't demonstrate outside his room and uses an old Scott amp. He didn't have a return policy (maybe he does now). And he reacted quite poorly to a review a couple of years back that gave his speaker perhaps the worst rating I've ever seen for an audio product.

I've heard the 1.3 with Fostex FE206E driver. The cabinet has no bracing and needed it badly. No deep bass. The rest of the bass was neither tight nor well defined (a muddy mess). Same drivers in 0.75 cu. ft. BR boxes provided much better bass (with less extension, but would have mated much better to a sub).

There's probably good reasons why the rest of the world doesn't use bass reflex cabinets for Lowther or most Fostex drivers.