Ohm Speakers

Aman · « **on:** 22 Apr 2005, 06:17 am »

Hello guys!

I have been on the quest for some good speakers for quite a while now, and I have come across an old favorite:

The speakers I want to upgrade from are the Ohm Model B speakers (whether or not they were considered legendary is up to you!

). I have recently been reading VERY favorable reviews about their speakers that they are manufacturing today. They look like they are a helluva lot better than what they were known for have produced in the seventies and eighties!

I am strongly considering the MicroWalsh Talls, and am wondering a few things:

My power source is a Pioneer SX-450 Receiver which I would if at all possible like to keep, as I really love the sound - the problem is that the amp does 15 watts per channel at 8ohms .. which may not be enough power for these speakers.

And secondly, and probably more importantly, I want to know if anybody has any experience with these speakers?

Any response is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
-Andrew

ss397 · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 01:02 pm »

i have no personal experience but bound for sound says the model 2 is a component of merit. my suggestion, call and talk to the owner of the company. they sell factory direct with 120 day trial period.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:07 pm »

Omnidirectional speakers can be much pickier with placement, because they are designed to use room reflections. If you have plenty of room to move them around to optimize, they'd probably be great.

I'm guessing they'd like more juice, but speakers that truly sing with 15 watts are a fairly small breed.

cornelius · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:55 pm »

hey Andrew, the previous post is a good suggestion - talk to John Strohbeen - he's the designer. He is very helpful.

Now then, I just passed by my 4 month trial period with a pair of Micro Talls, and they are my favorite speaker in that price range. I've listened to a lot of speakers from major manufacturers to small boutique brands, and the Talls really stand out. I hope they're compatible with your system - let us know what John recommends.

Also, keep in mind that these speakers are not true omnis. The back of the drivers are diffused to stop the sound from hitting the rear wall. They do, however, require a little room on the insides, they can't flank an entertainment unit. Other than that, they are easy to place - easier than any other speakers that I've owned.

Read these in the meantime!

http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/walsh/micro.html
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/ohm/ohm.html

skrivis · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 04:17 pm »

Quote from: cornelius

hey Andrew, the previous post is a good suggestion - talk to John Strohbeen - he's the designer. He is very helpful.

Now then, I just passed by my 4 month trial period with a pair of Micro Talls, and they are my favorite speaker in that price range. I've listened to a lot of speakers from major manufacturers to small boutique brands, and the Talls really stand out. I hope they're compatible with your system - let us know what John recommends.

Also, keep in mind that these speakers are not true omni ...

When I was a teenager, the speakers that impressed me at the local shops were the Ohm Fs, ESS/Heil AMTs, and the Klipschorns. I wanted to be able to afford these some day...

I later heard what were probably Walsh 2s at a store, and spent some time listening to them.

From what I remember, they provided an excellent soundstage that seemed as wide as the room. But... they always presented a wide soundstage, no matter the recording.

I'd like to listen to Ohms again, but I'm not sure I want to do their trial. First of all, I'd need the $2500/pr models, and then I'm not sure I'm that serious about buying a pair. It doesn't seem fair to engage in a trial unless there's a chance you're going to buy.

John said he could modify the $1500/pr models to more or less work in my room, but he made it sound like it would be quite limited.

I also have to admit I'm a bit skeptical about speakers that are so room-dependent.

Kevin P · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 04:54 pm »

Back in the early 80s the Ohm 5s where my dream speakers. I spent way too much time at the local audio store listening to something I couldn't afford.

I'm sure my memories are tainted with nostalgia but I'd love to have that original set of Ohm 5s.

audiojerry · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 05:58 pm »

Anybody with a pair in the Milwaukee/Chicago region willing to let me listen?

cornelius · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 06:54 pm »

Quote from: skrivis

I'd like to listen to Ohms again, but I'm not sure I want to do thei ...

I understand what you're saying about shelling out for the more expensive (2500-) pair. For my size room and price range, it was a no-brainer. You never know, you (and I) might like the larger Walsh models, but there are a lot of very nice sounding speakers for 2000- and above. It is tough to order a pair just out of curiousity.

From what I read, and from my own experience, I never really thought of the Ohm Walshes as being any more room dependent than any other type of speaker. It's true, they're not as pinpoint as regular speakers. If the soundstage is slightly exaggerated, it's a trade-off that I'll make for a truly boxless sound and large listening area (which is unobtainable in a floorstander for a grand). That was actually a concern of mine, so I emailed the reviewer at 6moons, asking if I would grow tired of an "effect." He said no, and I basically agree. But like I said, at that price point there will be trade-offs, variables that might not be tolerated at the 2500- mark!

JeffB · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 08:34 pm »

I always thought the whole idea of Ohms is that they are less dependant upon the room. The energy is disbursed more widely, thus making secondary reflections less powerful. All speakers interact with the room, but the directed energy from conventional speakers reaches your ear multiple times very strongly and very quickly thus destroying imaging. The Ohms provide a reduction in these multiple reflections, and thus imaging seems to be preserved. I thought they were designed to provide good imaging in almost any room. Furthermore, they don't reflect direct energy off the backwall, thus allowing them to be placed nearer to the backwall. I would be very interested in these except their sensitivity is only 87db. I believe the older models used to reflect energy off the backwall. Thus the imaging characteristics of the old models is probably quite different from the new.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 11:38 pm »

Aman:

My first (and only) pioneer receiver was an SX-990 which had 35 watts per channel out put. In it's day it was a very good performer. It finally died about 20 years ago and wound up in the garbage can. Compared to receviers that are avaible today it's performance would be sorely lacking. So my suggestion to you is to upgrade your electronics and then go looking for speakers. The bottom line is more power. Everything sounds so much better with more power!!!

Cheers
Charlie

Aman · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Apr 2005, 12:23 am »

Charles: Thank you for the suggestion:

However, because the left speaker is broken and the amplifier works fine, I think that it may be best for me to upgrade the speakers - it still is going to sound heaps better than it does now, so I think that may be the best for now, right?

Anyway, I called a VERY friendly person at Ohm and he told me that if the amp is driving the speakers I have now fine, then I should be able to run these new ones even better.

What's even cooler is that the speakers get discounted if I send them back my old ones!

This is very exciting news for me - since I'm a student, this is a very nice feature to have.

Thanks for the advice guys!
-Andrew

Aman · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Apr 2005, 04:22 am »

Sorry for the second post, but speaking of which:
Are there any other considerable speakers to mention that have a similar characteristic for the same price?

I know that Omega Loudspeakers makes interesting speakers, and they are right near by ... I hope I can demo those soon.. but the trade-in option is looking REALLY nice right about now.

If midrange clarity and realism are the two most important factors for me, then what are some other options in the same class?
Thanks again!

-Andrew

cornelius · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Apr 2005, 05:48 am »

Hey Andrew, I know Ohm's most obvious trait is their open soundstage, but it's actually their mid-range resolution that impresses me the most. Smooth, natural and resolves nicely. Having the crossover kicking in around 8k must have a lot to do with it. I just can't find another speaker for a grand that can do the same.

I guess if I was to recommend something else with a nice soundstage and natural mid-range, I'd suggest Vandersteen.

Aman · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Apr 2005, 06:04 am »

Quote from: cornelius

Hey Andrew, I know Ohm's most obvious trait is their open soundstage, but it's actually their mid-range resolution that impresses me the most. Smooth, natural and resolves nicely. Having the crossover kicking in around 8k must have a lot to do with it. I just can't find another speaker for a grand that can do the same.

I guess if I was to recommend something else with a nice soundstage and natural mid-range, I'd suggest Vandersteen.

Thanks for the Vandersteen suggestion!

I have heard only too much about them -- would they be more forgiving in a less-than-stellar room placement than the Ohm speakers would be?

The reason I ask is because they will be in a setting for about 3-6 months where they will be a good 3 feet away from the wall.. and about 5 feet away from me.. in not-so-accoustic conditions...

After that, however, I should be getting a very good setup.

Thanks in advance!
-Andrew

cornelius · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Apr 2005, 01:25 pm »

The best thing to do with Vandys, is find a really good dealer who sets them up properly. Ask them about placement... I think in general, the Ohms are a lot easier to place, and the sweet spot is a much larger. Otherwise, Vandersteens are great speakers.

Aman · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 May 2005, 06:29 am »

Well I was told by my local audio hifi dealer that my pioneer receiver would be a great option if the speakers are sensitive enough to run at okay levels.

He said that besides the power restraint, that the amp is musical and un-colored, and can match up sound-wise against anything in a 500 dollar range of amps today.

Here's my dilema:

I have these speakers from the seventies (Ohms). If I buy from Ohm, I can trade these speakers in, and get cash off my purchase. My left speaker likes to distort higher-pitched notes, and we have narrowed this down to NOT the amplifier, but instead the speakers. Nonetheless, I doubt Ohm would take the speakers like this.

Which means that I have a "powerless" amplifier and a dead left speaker. I am pretty sure that the speaker is the more immediate upgrade requirement - but I am then stuck with the problem that the speakers will not run well until a new amp comes into the picture as well.

I would rather not split my budget up into both speakers AND amplifier - just one or the other .. and money is something I don't come by easily due to the fact that I'm a student.

Here's the good news:

I'll have about 900 dollars to spend. If I buy SPEAKERS at the time I'm planning to, the next month I'll have obtained four hundred dollars which I can spend on an amplifier.

So now let me start over.

I have 1300 dollars in total - would like to spend approx. 900 on the speakers, 400 on the amp:

What I am looking most for in the setup (ordered from most important to least):

1. Midrange purity and quality
2. Bass SLAM (extension is nice too, but not necessary)
3. Air (meaning soundstage, in terms of depth and width, hopefully)

Those are the three most important things

I will be running on the following setup:

Goldring GR1 Turntable (Goldring Elektra cart) ---> Music Hall MMF Phono Pak ---> Amplifier ---> Speakers

Musical tastes:

1960-70's rock, progressive rock (very complex, multi-instrumental music), classical, and acid/fusion jazz

Examples:

From the 60s-70s rock, Boston, The Beatles
From the progressive rock, Yes, Rush, Jethro Tull
From the classical, Beethoven symphonies, Handel's "Messiah"
From the acid/fusion jazz, Frank Zappa, Wigwam

If anybody could help me out, it'd be greatly appreciated!

I would like to NOT limit myself to only local dealers, since they do not offer the greatest in selection. I think my most local dealers sell B&W, PSB, Snell, and the like (off the top of my head) ... so it'd be good to also get online ordering possibilities involved.

Thanks in advance! I appreciate all help!!
-Andrew

cornelius · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 May 2005, 11:34 pm »

Hey Andrew, it's me again - the Ohm guy. I think you can score a pair of Ohm MicroWalsh Talls for 900- in Black finish (no fancy veneers). If you pair them with an nad C320BEE for 400-, you'll have a very, very impressive system that will outperform any other combo in this price range - by a large margin. And when I look at your list of criteria, it precisely describes the Ohms:
1. Midrange purity and quality
2. Bass SLAM (extension is nice too, but not necessary)
3. Air (meaning soundstage, in terms of depth and width, hopefully)

I went to the Home Entertainment Expo in New York last week-end, and when I got home, I realized how these little Ohm speakers can really hang in there with the expensive guys.

Aman · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 May 2005, 03:45 am »

I have another pair of Ohm speakers, as you know...

Do you think that I could trade them in towards my next purchase from them? They say on the site that you can, for 25 percent off the next purchase!!

Now what I am wondering is I have a small inch-long inch-wide chip/bump on one of the corners of one of the two cabinets. Do you think they would still take them? The rest of them are in great condition, and have nary a scratch!

Thanks in advance! I'd call them, but I don't want to bother them for the 2nd time in a week

Aman · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 May 2005, 12:07 pm »

cornelius:

Do you have any experience with the NAD C370? I am told it's better than the amp you have mentioned, a step up in quality (and there's a lotta features for the money!). I ask because I may be able to get one for only about 350 dollars almost new...

Thanks!
-Andrew

JeffB · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 May 2005, 04:39 pm »

You might want to consider a JVC RX-F10. They are $229 from J&R music. These little digital hybrid amplifiers have been raved about all over Audio Circle. Do a search. I was going to search for some relevant links for you, but there are just so many. You might want to PM TheChairGuy about the unit, he has been one of its biggest fans. The only draw back is that they require good power-filtering to make them really shine. I noticed a big difference with just a $30 surge suppressor with noise rejection. TheChairGuy uses a BP2 at about $2k. This amplifier sold me on the digital concept, but rather than pay $2k for line noise filtering, I bought a battery powered Clari-T. The Clari-T at 6 watts though will not power the Ohms. The JVC is rated 100 Watts into 6 ohms. The Ohms are also rated at 6 Ohms. Perhaps perfect synergy. I was seriously considering this combination for a while. The JVC is also a 6.1 surround sound receiver with full remote.

There are newer JVC units hitting the stores right now. There is one unit for about $179. There have been no reports yet on the new units sound quality.

Last year I listened to a nad C320BEE vs. their separates
C162 pre-amp/C270 amp. The separates were vastly better.

The enviroments and time lag are too great for me to compare the JVC to the NAD.