Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST

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freshaudio

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Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« on: 3 Mar 2023, 04:30 am »
This is my certain case with Bryston 4Bsst as many other brands say so in manual.
How these two value of "watts" exits on the same machine? When it is 300w or 500w?
What is the true watts power output this amp capable of?

Clive197

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #1 on: 3 Mar 2023, 11:09 am »
300 watts RMS into 8Ohms or 500watts RMS into 4 Ohms is the same. When you halve the resistance you get close to double the power.

Stercom

Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #2 on: 3 Mar 2023, 11:41 am »
Depends on your speakers. What that means is the amp is capable of 300 watts into a 8 ohm speaker and 500 watts into a 4 ohm speaker. If you don't know, it's fairly safe to say that is PLENTY of power for most speakers.

freshaudio

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #3 on: 3 Mar 2023, 12:04 pm »
300 watts RMS into 8Ohms or 500watts RMS into 4 Ohms is the same. When you halve the resistance you get close to double the power.
I know theoretically halve the resistance the power required by speaker may double. But from the amp side, output power is increase or decrease between 300w and 500w?

Stercom

Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #4 on: 3 Mar 2023, 12:26 pm »
I know theoretically halve the resistance the power required by speaker may double. But from the amp side, output power is increase or decrease between 300w and 500w?
On the amp side, as the resistance of the speaker goes DOWN, the output wattage of the amp will go UP. So, like Bryston tells you in their specs, at 8 ohms the 4BSST is capable of producing 300 watts and at 4 ohms it's capable of 500 watts. I'm going to drop out of this conversation now. Do a quick Google search on how amps work and how output wattage is determined for amps.

alanford69

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #5 on: 4 Mar 2023, 04:02 pm »
The resistance of a speaker changes in reference to frequency (and this is called Impedance). There is no speaker that behaves as a pure resistive load: 8 Ω is the standard impedance for speakers, measured at 400Hz

Not to mention capacitive and inductive parameters, which are there as well, the power at 8 and 4 ohm is just an indicator of how good the amplifier is when handling difficult speakers.
« Last Edit: 5 Mar 2023, 06:12 am by alanford69 »

freshaudio

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #6 on: 5 Mar 2023, 12:13 am »
It seems my question is not answered rightly yet!
What I want to know is how the amp changes its capable of 300 watts into a 8 ohm speaker and 500 watts into a 4 ohm speaker in the same chasis?
What is the wattages of this amp finally?
Thanks for any incoming feedback.

JCarney

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #7 on: 5 Mar 2023, 12:57 am »
Your question has been answered correctly. Higher impedance, ie: ohms, the lower the power. Lower impedance, the power increases, period. If you are pulling a heavy trailer your vehicle is producing maximum power from a dead stop to get moving. As speed increases, power requirements lower. The vehicle is still capable of producing 300bhp, but only 75bhp are needed once speed is reached to maintain that speed. Your amplifier is capable of 500 watts when needed just like the vehicle towing. Most of the time only a few watts are needed, but during complex passages at volume, your amp will have the ability to deliver the power when required just like the tow vehicle.

Hopefully this example will help,
JCarney

js1955

Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #8 on: 5 Mar 2023, 01:21 pm »
It is obvious that English is not his primary language.  Hence the misunderstanding and lack of comprehension, I'm guessing.

richidoo

Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #9 on: 5 Mar 2023, 04:03 pm »
What has not been mentioned yet and what is essential to understand to answer your question is Ohm's Law, which describes current flow (power) in relation to voltage (music signal) and resistance (speaker load.)

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/electrical/what-is-ohms-law

Speaker load varies with frequency, so the same speaker might show 8 ohm load to the amp at one moment then show a 4 ohm load to the amp another moment.

Its just like a car, in that the car presents a varying load to the engine depending on several different factors. Uphill/downhill, cold/hot air, coasting or floored accelerator, etc. The engine can make 300hp at 2000rpm and 500HP at 6000rpm. Varying load, varying output, same engine.

A big misunderstanding among audiophiles who don't yet understand Ohms Law is that the amp forces its power on the speaker. "1000w amp will destroy a little Alpair 7 single driver speaker." No. The little driver is in control of the amp's power output. The amp will always send the amplified voltage requested by the volume knob, but the power level, and hence the loudness (and the damage) are determined by the impedance (load) of the speaker itself. The speaker demands the current according to the load. Load varies with frequency, so the power varies with frequency. Frequency varies with music, at least in some  music.  :lol:

The two power ratings  given for the amp are just two points on the power curve of the amp, like power/rpm graph for an engine. When the music signal is 1000Hz the speaker might have 8 ohm load and draw 300w at a certain voltage. But at that same voltage when the speaker is playing 50Hz signal the impedance drops to 4 ohms and the amp will be providing 500w at that instant. Same amp, same speaker, varying load. In a real-world ported speaker  the impedance near the port resonance might vary hugely. Port tuned to 40Hz might have impedance of 2ohms at port resonance 40Hz and 60 ohms at 30Hz and 60Hz. So any bass music will present very complex power demand to the amp. Negative feedback helps the amp to instantly and accurately deliver the current demanded by the speaker to control the drivers and maintain low distortion acoustic signal.

The speaker load varies because it is a complex mechanical device with many interacting variable forces. The driver has its own impedance curve, but that is made more complex when installed in a box. Search "loudspeaker impedance curve" for example graphs of varying load of a speaker.

2 power ratings are intended to help you decide whether the amp can adequately power any speaker across its entire performance envelope. The 8 ohm and 4 ohm points on the power curve are given as an industry standard, but the generalized "8 ohm speaker" is never true, and the actual minimum impedance is never given. You have to ask for impedance curve to learn it, or search for a reviewers measurements, or measure it yourself with "DATS" device or similar.
Hope this helps! Ohms law not easy to grasp at first, as it can seem counterintuitive. But it is extremely useful to audiophiles.

James Tanner

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #10 on: 5 Mar 2023, 06:18 pm »
Thanks Rich  :thumb:
One of the areas I always try to point out is that the amplifiers output stages ability to instantaneously deliver voltage or current simultaneously to a given real world load is a critical design feature in Bryston amplifiers.
We have worked long and hard on this over our many years !

best
james

freshaudio

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #11 on: 9 Mar 2023, 05:17 am »
Thank you all for your help with very detail explaination. Much appreciated!
Yes, I am not primary English language. So sorry for any misunderstand you may incurred.

Letitroll98

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #12 on: 9 Mar 2023, 11:59 am »
Thank you all for your help with very detail explaination. Much appreciated!
Yes, I am not primary English language. So sorry for any misunderstand you may incurred.

Not a problem, we have many members from around the world who have many different primary languages.   Unlike some other English centric sites we try to work with everyone despite any language barriers.  Welcome to Audiocircle.

R. Daneel

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #13 on: 12 Mar 2023, 04:07 pm »
This brings up an interesting point. Mr. Richard Schram of Parasound brought it up once. It is that it would perhaps be easier if amplifiers were rated in Amperes (Amps) rather than Watts.

Highendfool

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Re: Meaning of 300W@8ohms and 500W@4ohms on 4BSST
« Reply #14 on: 13 Mar 2023, 05:02 pm »
This brings up an interesting point. Mr. Richard Schram of Parasound brought it up once. It is that it would perhaps be easier if amplifiers were rated in Amperes (Amps) rather than Watts.

Same issue with impedance!