[Edward4]

Hi everybody. I'm new to learning about sound systems, and I think maybe I need to replace my cheap speakers. I'm just not sure where to start. I ideally want them to have good quality capacitors and so on inside, and to work really well, or at least somewhat well, with my current amp.

Background: I have this GemTune X-1 amp that I got six years ago, and if possible, I'd like to just get good speakers that would cooperate beautifully with it. It has four tubes on it, including a couple EL34-type tubes, and it allegedly puts out about 8 watts per channel. It sounds great for some types of music, like flute solos or violin solos, but on other types of music with more instruments, it seems to distort or lose its clarity. Also I think maybe the cheap speakers I have (Polk TSi 200, no idea what the impedance curve looks like, allegedly 89db sensitivity) simply don't have much clarity due to the principle of "I get what I pay for", but this fact might be hidden by some types of music. Other types of music, like where a jazz drummer rubs those brush things on his drums, it just sounds like mush; it sounds very fuzzy. I assume this is due to inexpensive capacitors or inductors inside that smear the sound signals a bit, in order to bring the product to market at the low price I paid for it.

1. So I've heard rumors that low-power amps require high sensitivity speakers, right?
2. I've also heard rumors that tube amps are not like solid state amps, and sensitivity is not the main thing, but having high impedance is what is important, where the impedance curve does not dip down too low anywhere.
3. And finally, I've also heard rumors that no, neither sensitivity nor have a minimum-level of impedance matters, what matters is having a flat impedance curve.

Can anyone give me more clues about this? How flat does the impedance curve need to be? Where can I learn more about this? What are examples of speakers that sound good with a single-ended pentode amp? Should I really just upgrade to a different amp? I recently saw some videos by Danny Richie at GR Research and I liked what he said about speakers; he has designed an "Encore" speaker that you assemble yourself. I guess this is what the impedance curve looks like:



Would something like this be workable? I like the idea of having speakers that are designed by an expert, but without having to pay for the overhead costs and assembly costs of a high-end speaker manufacturer.

Thank you for your time.

[Edward4]

I forgot to mention: this is for a medium-sized living room. I mainly listen to classical music, jazz music, and world/ethnic music. My amp only cost like $260, but my first thought is to just see if there are speakers out there that will work well with it, before rushing to replace it with a different amp. But I'm also open to replacing it. I just want something that sounds good, so I can be done with this audio stuff and focus on other things, haha.

[FullRangeMan]

I would use a sole full range driver as Lii Audio F15 or other you may like that will offer a bening 8Ω impedance, hi sensitivity and no xover direct from the amp to help the amp transparency, if you prefer use a two way speaker with xover, dont expect flat impedance or good image/transparency, with 8W avoid speakers under 98dB, IMO.

[Edward4]

Thank you for your suggestions.

I heard a rumor recently that full-range speakers tend to have their pros and cons, the pros being that they have a flatter impedance curve, and the cons being that the ones with larger diameter drivers can project most of their high-frequency sounds in a narrow "beam", with relatively little off-axis treble sound. Maybe I just need to keep the driver size small? I actually have some inexpensive 20-year-old bookshelf speakers with a single 2.5 inch driver, sitting off by themselves. I should connect them up and test them out with my brand new subwoofer. Even if they are not ideal speakers, they might help give me a better sense of what's what.

Anyway yeah, I like the idea of off-axis sound, since I want to be able to move around, or have guests over and have them milling around, but still be able to hear most of the frequencies the speakers are putting out.

[FullRangeMan]

Thank you for your suggestions.

I heard a rumor recently that full-range speakers tend to have their pros and cons, the pros being that they have a flatter impedance curve, and the cons being that the ones with larger diameter drivers can project most of their high-frequency sounds in a narrow "beam", with relatively little off-axis treble sound. Maybe I just need to keep the driver size small? I actually have some inexpensive 20-year-old bookshelf speakers with a single 2.5 inch driver, sitting off by themselves. I should connect them up and test them out with my brand new subwoofer. Even if they are not ideal speakers, they might help give me a better sense of what's what.

Anyway yeah, I like the idea of off-axis sound, since I want to be able to move around, or have guests over and have them milling around, but still be able to hear most of the frequencies the speakers are putting out.

the cons being that the ones with larger diameter drivers can project most of their high-frequency sounds in a narrow "beam", with relatively little off-axis treble sound.
I mentioned the F15/F18 why the are my personal choice, you may prefer other driver.
Yes FR drivers that have a whizzer cone tend to beam the treble, so you have to look FR that have no whizzer cone as the Classic10 from Commom Sense.
https://www.dibirama.altervista.org/home-page/full-extended-range/588-audio-nirvana-classic-10-ferrite-full-range-10-8-ohm-45-wmax.html
You have to consider that small cone FR have a small soundstage and big cone FR drivers have a big soundstage along a mid-bass presence hard to find in other speakers.

[strateahed]

Edward4, not trying to get into the weeds in terms of the technical stuff, but [at the risk of bringing out the torches & pitchforks] make a suggestion. With that budget, and your listening tastes, take a look at the Tekton Design Mini Lore ... sometimes called M-Lore. It's 95dB into 8 ohms, so fairly easy to drive. I own a set of Tekton Enzo XL's (96.5dB) and have been happy with them and plan on keeping until I move up to hopefully end-game Salks. I ran them with a 10-watt SET amp with great results. That amount of power was more than adequate. Only downside was a little soft on the low-end. But if you've got a decent sub, should be no issue at all.

That said, you may get some opinions here on Audiocircle from folks who may not have actually listened to or heard Tektons, but it doesn't stop the bashing and bomb throwing. At least that's been the case over on A-gon. The Tektons are my second direct-to-consumer speakers, and I made the decision the same way both times: did a fair amount of research online, paying close attention to both professional and personal reviews from actual owners. I recommend you take a look at the professional/consumer reviews for the M-Lore's. At $750 for the pair, and a 60-day in home trial, you have a budget friendly way to see/hear for yourself if the reviews hold up. If you don't like 'em send 'em back.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with the company or commercial interest whatsoever.

[Rocket]

Hi,

I think your amplifier at only 8 watts a channel is really limiting your options and you probably need to replace along with your speakers. AVA have a good control amplifier for $1199usd which would open up your speaker options:

https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/vision-set-120-power-amplifier

I'd also have a look at Dennis Murphy's BMR stand mount speaker which is a high end speaker at a reasonable price:

https://www.philharmonicaudio.com

Good luck with any path you decide to take.

Cheers Rod

[Tubefly]

Hi Edward,

This is not super organized more a stream of consciousness. I have 2 8 watt tube amps that I love(ASL and Dennis Had Inspire). In my opinion you don't need  more power you need speakers that are better match for you amp, your room, and your ears.

If you don't like your Polk's, move to something else. Use graigslist, facebook marketplace, or Hifi Shark. Maybe try a used pair of B&W DM 601 Bookshelf. I did and then moved on they worked well enough but I wanted to try Klipsch speakers.

• Decware has speaker recommendations to look at.
• Tekton has mini monitors and bookshelves in your price range
• Omega out of your range but available on used market
• Dennis Had Inspire forum thread disusing tube rolling and speakers
• Zu again out of your range but available on the used market
• Nice Article
• Glow in the Dark

I could go on but not having fun posting the list. To much editing with codes and what not. Other thoughts: Pi Speakers (DIY), Horne Shoppe, Inlow Sound, Blumenstein, etc.

Your speakers are out there! Explore have fun.

Best, Alan

[mick wolfe]

New offerings below $1K. I agree on the already mentioned Tekton Mini-Lore or even the Lore Reference. Tube friendly, fairly efficient with decent bass extension. Throw the standard Lore in there if you can stretch your budget a bit. On the DIY front, yes, the Lii F15 is an an interesting open baffle option, but do your research first.

[Frankthetech]

I have used the Axiom M3 bookshelf speakers with a 6V6 se amp I built a while back an still use, the Axioms are well made and look great.
Sound is very good and even the bass is there, I think they are under your $1000 budget.

[planet10]

Mostly 3.

Your Single Ended Pentode EL34 amplifier, unless it has an inordinate amount of feedback will have a high output impedance. This means that the shape of the impedance curve imposes itself on the frequency response. In the example you showed, the speaker would exhibit raised output centred around 900 Hz.

Also given the OPT is tapped at a nominal impedance you do not want the impedance to stray much from that value. And usually the issue is the impedance goes too low and the amplifer cannot supply sufficient current.

dave

[Edward4]

Hi folks, so I ended up getting an Encore kit from GR Research, which cost me around $1k + my labor to put it together. It sounds considerably better than what I had before, and perhaps it will continue to improve during the 400-hour burn-in time that I've heard about.

With my SET tube amp, which supposedly puts out 8w/ch, there's not a lot of excess volume/power, but the volume level seems fine for movies and music so far.