Crossover upgrade suggestions?

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Evdiyguy

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Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« on: 9 Feb 2023, 03:21 pm »
Hi All - New to the Board and looking forward to reviewing your great and insightful posts. I’ve got a lot to learn. I signed up after finding the link via GR-Research. I always appreciate their upgrade project videos on YouTube.

….so my first question is, have any of you worked with the old Electro-Voice horn and driver components EV sold way back in the 1980’s? My reason for asking is that I have 2 diy loudspeakers that were built 40 years ago and and thought I might try to upgrade the crossovers. The speakers are 3-way front ported boxes with the T35 Tweeter horn, the 1823 Midrange horn and the EVM12L woofer. As old as they are they still sound great, better than the Klipsch Heresey’s of the day. However, I’m thinking an upgrade to the Crossovers might benefit them, adding better clarity and spacial definition.

….so I’ve attached specs and schematics of the X8 (800hz) and X36 (3500hz) Crossovers below which are currently installed. Any suggestions or ideas you might have on where to look on these boards regarding upgrading them would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your shared insights!




ArthurDent

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Re: Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: 9 Feb 2023, 07:50 pm »
Greetings & Welcome to AC  :thumb: I'm sure someone will have some thoughts &/or comment.

richidoo

Re: Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: 9 Feb 2023, 09:33 pm »
Welcome to AudioCircle, Ev!

Please post higher resolution scan.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: 9 Feb 2023, 11:47 pm »
Welcome to AC  :thumb:

Evdiyguy

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Re: Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: 10 Feb 2023, 11:01 pm »
Thank you.

This first image is the top half of the spec sheet and the second image in the post below with contain the X8 and X36 crossover wiring diagrams.
The image below is a 13.5 MB file




Evdiyguy

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Re: Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: 10 Feb 2023, 11:08 pm »

EV X8 (800Hz) and X36 (3600Hz) crossover wiring diagrams. If these are still illegible, let me know and I’ll zoom in even more…just tying to minimize data size.




Thanks again for your thoughts.

richidoo

Re: Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: 11 Feb 2023, 03:57 am »
They are both simple 2nd order filters with cap and coil on each.
A lot more engineering went into the drivers back then to make them well behaved even with simple shallow slope filters.
Modern film capacitors are more transparent to signal than 1980 vintage film caps, so those are ripe for upgrade. I like Jantzen Superior Z, they are good value and performance, imo.  Notice I didn't say it will "sound better," because the old caps may have been selected specifically to hide certain sonic flaws that the new caps might reveal.

If any caps are electrolytic (liquid) caps, then they are too old to use and should be replaced.

The stock coils are probably fine to reuse. Upgrading them might lower the DCR which can affect the filter function slightly, but sometimes that is a good thing especially on bass where lowest DCR is desirable for better electrical damping from the amplifier. If you get bigger gage coils and it sounds off you can add resistor to bring DCR back up.

If there are any attenuation resistors in the xo or on the drivers those can be upgraded with Mills wirewound 12W of same value as the originals.

You can post a picture of the XOs and we can tell you if they are electrolytic or film caps, magnetic core or air core inductors, etc.

Pay attention to the "cascade wiring" schema described. If your speakers are wired this way, then stick with that.

If there is no acoustic damping (stuffing material) inside the boxes, they might benefit from adding a small amount, but keep it away from ports. If there is old stuffing that's still OK, just reuse it. The amount of stuffing is engineered, so replacing it with different material ideally requires testing/measuring/listening, etc.

Evdiyguy

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Re: Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: 11 Feb 2023, 03:18 pm »
Wow! Thanks for your reply and insights! I’ll have to pull the crossovers. They’re encased in metal boxes and I don’t recall if they’re mechanically fastened or welded/glued shut. If welded, I’ll just build new ones on a board using the schematic diagrams along with your shared insights, including adding the dampening material. I feel like I’m going to be opening a time capsule…gonna bring back a lot of good memories.

I’ll keep the board updated and let you know if I have any questions along the way.

Thanks again for your thoughts and insights!

Evdiyguy

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Re: Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: 9 Jul 2023, 03:58 am »
Finally following up. After digging up more information on the EV X8 and X36 crossover assemblies, I came to the realization that it was better to leave them intact. I then started looking for options. Knowing that my EV drivers were foundational to the early Klipsch drivers of the period (late 1970’s) I found the crossover designs of Crites(B&K) to be a viable option and commissioned a pair from Michael at Crites(B&K) made specifically for my drivers. After letting them burn-in over a period of time the character of those EV drivers completely opened up. The clarity, presence, imaging, dynamics and staging have returned and are now better than ever. Best money I’ve ever spent on a pair of speakers since the 1970’s. Thanks to all of you who shared your thoughts and input.



GeorgeAb

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Re: Crossover upgrade suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: 9 Jul 2023, 08:48 pm »
Well done.