Tube Research Labs

rklein · « **on:** 19 Apr 2005, 03:08 pm »

Hi Everyone:

Has anyone done business with Tube Research Labs? They have gotten great reviews over on AA for their mods on Sony CDP's. It seems you can choose between buying a car or one of their audio pieces. However, their prices on their mods seem very reasonable ($550). I emailed Paul Weitzal at TRL with a couple of questions and I had a reply in 24 hours.

Yours,

rklein

Songforyou · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Apr 2005, 03:33 pm »

There is a review on 6moons which you may know about. I too have emailed them a number of times and have received prompt and detailed responses. I'm weighing the Sony 2000 against adding adding a dac (scott nixon or audio zone) to my existing player. Haven't heard the Sony, so I am curious. There is another thread here asking the same question (no replies there yet).

mcgsxr · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 Apr 2005, 03:34 pm »

Hey Song, if you want to borrow my Mensa DAC for a couple of nights, give me a shout, we live in the same town after all!

Just to see what this DAC sounds like, to you, in your system etc.

rklein · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Apr 2005, 07:09 pm »

Quote

I'm weighing the Sony 2000 against adding adding a dac (scott nixon or audio zone) to my existing player.

Why the Sony 2000 and not the 595? Aren't they essentially the same player? There are probably a couple of differences. I know the 2000ES has a 5 year warranty, but won't that be voided by the potential mods? Personally, I like the looks of the ES model but the 595 is only $149 new. In my intial email to TRL I asked what they thought about modding a Sony S7700 that I just picked up on ebay for $200 delivered. They responded that after the $550 mods, I just may like the modded S7700 by itself more than running it through the SN TubeDac+.

I am going to stay the course I mapped out for myself for now and use the stock S7700 with the TubeDac+. However, it's nice to know that yet another company is getting positive reviews for their mods along with the existing modders that are members of AC.

Yours,

rklein

Songforyou · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 12:22 am »

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the generous offer. At the end of May I'm done with school (went back for a B.Ed. after working for more than 15 years) and will definitely give you a call.

Hi RKlein,

Liked the Sony 2000 for three reasons: co-ax digital out, headphone jack with volume control, and looks. The first is a must for me. I like having the option of upgrading with a dac down the road. The 595 only has toslink out and no headphone jack.

I'd really like to see some responses on the Sony (especially compared to the SN tubedac.) Also, SN has some new dacs in the works (according to his website) that are due by the end of May. So I'm sitting tight for now.

Jay S · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 01:21 am »

The 2000es also has an extra transformer that the 595 does not have. Given the difference in price is $100, I'd go for the 2000es. You won't miss the $100 down the road but you will appreciate the better looks, the coaxial digital out (in case you use it as a transport) and perhaps the headphone out.

warnerwh · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 01:53 am »

Sony ES products use higher quality parts and are built better. They're worth the extra dough.

soundboy · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 04:48 am »

The C2000ES also has dedicated left/right outputs, in addition to the 5.1 audio outputs, whereas the SCD-CE595 only has the latter.

Fife12 · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 05:56 am »

Quote

The C2000ES also has dedicated left/right outputs, in addition to the 5.1 audio outputs, whereas the SCD-CE595 only has the latter.

I actually prefer having the Front L/R of the 5.1 multichannel out the same as the 2 channel one. Thats money saved on interconnects.

Jay S · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 07:11 am »

I don't see the benefits of separate outputs for an audio-only player. For a player with video, I'd connect the higher quality outputs to a preamp and the lower quality outputs direct to the tv.

rklein · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 12:34 pm »

Thanks for posting the differences between the Sony 2000ES and the 595. The 2000ES is a no brainer. I would like to share with you an email from TRL. I asked the following questions:

Quote

Hi Paul:

Thanks for getting back so soon with a reply. I appreciated it. I am interested in your mods. I currently have an Onkyo S-535 DVD Player which serves as double duty for HT and 2 channel. I recently bought a used Scott Nixon tubedac+. I then purchased (haven't received yet) a used Sony DVP-S7700 player to use as a transport. I am kind of committed to use this combination for awhile. My question is, when the time comes, would it be better to have you mod my existing S7700, which, by the way, probably does not have any warranty left, or have you mod a new Sony 2000ES or 595 player (or a new player to be named at that time)? Which player would you recommend as the better player to mod? I know the ES machine has a five year warranty, but is that not a moot point as your mods would probably nullify that warranty anyway? I am not interested in spending big bucks on a universal machine right now with HD-DVD and possibly Blue-Ray around the corner. But I do like the idea of having a modded machine with Redbood and SA capabilities.

TRL Reply:

Quote

Hi, Randy, the Onkyo can be made to have a very good picture, very real skin-tones, less "motion artifact" and a greatly improved white level. Also, the sound when playing videos can be much better, particularly in the bass, and less harsh on the top-end. You might prefer the reworked Sony 7700 out of its analog outputs to the analog outputs of the Nixon, however the Nixon can be improved also. If we do a combo transport/DAC, we only charge an additional $100, so that charge would be $650. All of the outputs on the Sony would be better.

Thanks.
Paul

I have to share that TRL's response to my email came back in about 15 minutes. That being said they really didn't answer some of my questions, so I will ask them here...

1. Would you mod an older S7700 player or a newer 2000ES?? My thoughts would be to mod the 2000ES and the tubedac+ for the extra $100 and then do some comparisons with the modded 2000ES as a stand-alone to that of the S7700/modded tubedac+ combo to that of the modded 2000ES/modded tubedac+. Keep the best sounding and sell the rest. By the way, TRL has a money back guarantee on all their mods.(They state no one has used it yet)

2. Aren't most warranties voided by having the unit modded? (Not a deal breaker for me... just interested)

Thanks,

rklein

Songforyou · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 12:53 pm »

I think your idea is brilliant! Get the 2000, mod the tubedac and compare. Then post your findings. Then I'll know exactly what to do

.

rklein · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 01:14 pm »

Songforyou, I appreciate your support...

I know, I know, "don't worry, you're right behind me"

rklein

rbrb · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 03:24 pm »

My understanding is that the 595 converts DSD to PCM and the 2000 does not. That would be the most important reason for choosing the 2000 over the 595 for me.

Jay S · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 May 2005, 06:46 am »

I hooked up my TRL-modded Marantz SA14 SACD player last night. It needs 500 hours to break in but already it sounds very musical and coherent and is doing very well in all the usual audiophile criteria. If it only gets better then I am definitely a happy camper. At a price of $550, the mods are a no brainer to me.

I have a Marantz 9500 (the latest universal player) and a Scott Nixon Tube Dac and the TRL/Marantz SA14 is much better than both. Last night I compared the unbroken-in TRL/SA14 vs the 9500, the 9500 + Scott Nixon and to SA14+Scott Nixon. Clearly, just using the TRL/SA14 as a standalone player was much much more musical and coherent, with also better detail, transparency, slam, tonality, imaging, etc.

The TRL-modded 2000ES is said to have a similar house sound and voicing but Paul @ TRL says that the modded SA14 simply does it better.

The SA14 used to Marantz' flagship sacd player. The v1 can be found used for about $1300-$1500. The v1 and v2 sound the same after TRL mods so no need to spend extra on the v2. The newer SA11 is a better platform for mods but it also costs about $1k more to buy than the SA14.

twu2 · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 May 2005, 02:07 am »

Quote from: Jay S

I hooked up my TRL-modded Marantz SA14 SACD player last night. It needs 500 hours to break in but already it sounds very musical and coherent and is doing very well in all the usual audiophile criteria. If it only gets better then I am definitely a happy camper. At a price of $550, the mods are a no brainer to me.

Jay is right about the TRL mod. There have been plenty of raves and discussion on Audiogon and AudioAsylum as well. I originally thought to give a try seeing its affordable cost, especially when compared to other modders' offerings I was considering at the time. So I first went through the break-in with the stock Sony C2000ES, per Paul's suggestion, before sending it in for the mod. It didn't sound good to my ears even after that. I was quite skeptical to say the least and had wondered whether I made the right move. I have a Sony SCD-777ES as well. Now I have had my TRL-C2000ES for more than 2 months with around 600 hours playtime, and this unit has turned into the most musically satisfying digital playback I ever own. Please also note that I am speaking from a diehard analogue and tube/SET guy's perspective. No brainer at $250 from Odae+$550 mod+$20~30 shipping!!! Having experiencing it, I will be looking forward to the opportunity for owning a TRL-Marantz in the near future.

azideam · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Jul 2005, 09:37 pm »

Anyone know if all three DACs are used when the 2000es is running in SACD 2-ch mode? I know the pricier decks do this.

Jay S · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Jul 2005, 01:13 am »

twu, glad to hear you are enjoying your TRL. While user comments/reviews are useful I especially appreciate comments from people like you who are die-hard analog/vinyl fans since this "obsolete" technology still represents the holy grail of music reproduction!

OBF · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Jul 2005, 04:46 pm »

Jay, do you have any updated comments now that your Marantz has some time on it? Sorry if I missed anything posted elsewhere, but I'm really curious how the TRL mod is working out for you.

Thanks,
Mark.

Jay S · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jul 2005, 12:54 am »

I haven't had a chance to listen in a few days but as of a week ago I was over 500 hours. The TRL SA14 is very coherent and musical. Powerful, tuneful bass. Typically very natural voices. Extended quite refined highs. 3D soundstaging. Occassionally I hear a bit of thinness and an edge but I think that it is due to the power cord that is breaking in (the CRL Silver series power cord is very very thick). I have albums that I never liked, for example, U2's Zooropa, but now somehow with the TRL SA14 U2's musical intent is clear to me. I appreciate and love the rhythm and pacing and the coherent interplay among all the various elements of their songs. The same applies to Maroon 5. The PRaT of the TRL is really very good.

I am looking forwards to when the power cord is fully broken in.

I have not yet tried the QuickSilver on any of the connectors. It is said to make a noticeable improvement.

TRL has updated their SA14 mod since I got mine (based on new techniques they discovered while doing mods to medical equipment!), which makes the sound more natural and powerful. They are giving a free update to all past TRL SA14 customers. I have not yet had mine updated.

In all, my experience with TRL has been excellent.