[Bingo]

Hi George,
It's been a while, but here's how I remember it.  My two bridged Hafler DH500's were being used by my best friend down in New Oleans.  When he returned them, he shipped then via UPS.  My friend knows how to pack delicate packages because that is part of what he does for a living, transporting rare European antiques.  UPS damaged the double boxed amps.  They took a long, long fall and UPS decided to make good on the damage after they inspected the package.  They wanted an actual repair bill for setting up a reimbursment, not an estimate, like Stan sent to me.  Looking at Stan's invoice, his esitmate was dated 8/3/95, invoice number 30, with a total repair estimate of $640.00, without yet fixing the amps.  Worst of all, that was the second amp package damaged in shipping by UPS in the same monthand they weren't happy about it.   UPS paid Stan for repairing the first damaged Superphon amp.  I waited so long, that the original claims agent DIED! Then later on, UPS dropped the claim since they had not yet seen an actual bill.  Stan was not only going to repair my amps, but he sold me on his giant killer mods, for which I was going to pay extra out of my own pocket, not UPS's.  Now how much do you think it will cost to totaly recap those amps, alone? Ten years of musical enjoyment down the drain.

[mgalusha]

I should stay out of this but I still bristle when I hear his name.

You might try what I did, contact the Oregon Department of Justice. http://www.doj.state.or.us/FinFraud/welcome3.htm

My patience expired 4 months after he told me a CDP would be ready. Same story, numerous phone calls and letters all with no response.

My final letter was sent certified mail and it was to imform him that if I didn't have my player, the money and the black gate and jensen caps or the completed player back within two weeks I was going to file charges with the DOJ. Suprise suprise, 17 days later I had my player back along with hand written letter of apology. 'Course that was 3 days after I'd sent all the documentation to the DOJ. The DOJ responded within a week and acknowledged receipt of my submission. I wrote back and told them to call off the dogs as I'd received satisfaction.

I know of another person who took the same path and he too received his equipment back shortly after going this route.

Best of luck.

[Bingo]

Thanks for the advise, mgalusha.
Panelhead, when an "extremely honest person" tells me, my wife, a police officer friend and an attorney(all differenct phone calls) that he will get right on it to get my amps back a.s.a.p., then he does it. Am I right?
Is that giving him a break or what? I even underestimated on the actual time that he has had my gear.

[Panelhead]

Thanks for the advise, mgalusha.
Panelhead, when an "extremely honest person" tells me, my wife, a police officer friend and an attorney(all differenct phone calls) that he will get right on it to get my amps back a.s.a.p., then he does it. Am I right?
Is that giving him a break or what? I even underestimated on the actual time that he has had my gear.

  I stand corrected. But I still think this is a function of not being; organized, time efficient, and finally punctual.
  Stan in my humble opinion means to get all this gear out on time. He just gets sidetracked. My last phone call, couple of years back, lasted over two hours. I ended up hanging up. Learned a lot in those two hours about the latest parts and modifications. Did them myself. Might br still waiting on a modified M8260 to return from Stan if I did send it off.
  I deal with very poor business people every day. I have pity on them. But this is a results driven world. If you cannot deliver quality, value, innovation, and all in a timely fashion you fail. Guess what, the majority of audio businesses fail in the end. The surviviors all offer quality, value, innovation, and do it in a timely fashion.

                             George

[Agisthos]

Similar stories to this are told about the guy who runs Audible Illusions. Its not like they are intentionally dishonest, they just don't know how to run a business to save their life.

Having said that, lets hear some reports from people who have listened to the Superphon Revelation 3 preamp.

[clubmyke]

marbles - i would rather not say who the mfg. is.... i am trying to get them back and dont want any bad blood..

it is really unfortunate that situations happen like this with "cottage" mfg.. they are cheap in their price, high quality, but poor/slow customer service (cant have it all- something has to give... to bring on more people they would have to raise prices. so as a result, i think they do a lot themselves and get spread too thin )

however anything past 3 months for a repair / upgrade is totally unexcuseable..

[Bingo]

"An extremely honest person" makes amends and appologizes for any inconvience.  It's that simple.  That's where the forgiveness comes in.

[doug s.]

Similar stories to this are told about the guy who runs Audible Illusions. Its not like they are intentionally dishonest, they just don't know how to run a business to save their life.

Having said that, lets hear some reports from people who have listened to the Superphon Revelation 3 preamp.

how anyone in their right mind could even *CONSIDER* a purchase of  *ANYTHING* w/stan warren's name on it is totally beyond me.  

doug s.

[Agisthos]

Similar stories to this are told about the guy who runs Audible Illusions. Its not like they are intentionally dishonest, they just don't know how to run a business to save their life.

Having said that, lets hear some reports from people who have listened to the Superphon Revelation 3 preamp.

how anyone in their right mind could even *CONSIDER* a purchase of  *ANYTHING* w/stan warren's name on it is totally beyond me.  

doug s.

Simple. You can't make a judgement based on a few complaints on a message board, especially when the other party has not had a chance to reply.

For some fun go read the trade disputes on Audiogon. Reading the first part of a dispute is so convincing, that is until you read the reply - and realise no single side of an arguement can be taken on its own.

[zybar]

When you see the same complaints multiple times across multiple boards, I don't think you necessarily need to hear the other side to form an opinion.

There is no excuse for this type of business practice, period!!

As people have pointed out, the authorities should be involved at this point.

George

[doug s.]

Simple. You can't make a judgement based on a few complaints on a message board, especially when the other party has not had a chance to reply.

For some fun go read the trade disputes on Audiogon. Reading the first part of a dispute is so convincing, that is until you read the reply - and realise no single side of an arguement can be taken on its own.

yure right it's simple.  stan warren's reputation for non-delivery of goods/services is well documented in audiophile circles.  saying the other party hasn't had a chance to reply is laughable!  the other party has had days, months, years to reply!  

three years ago i decided not to send stan an aiwa cd-changer, based upon feedback regarding his services.  this incident here is yust another example.

doug s.

[Agisthos]

It seems like some of these innovative backyard audio designers should form a partnership with hard nosed maketing men who know how to run a company.
That would be a good match.

But most of them do not and try to do it all themselves being utter failures in the end

[clubmyke]

the only way to purchase these items would be if the buyer was a  "local" and had a personal relationship with owner/designer... otherwise you are SOL

[JCC]

Many of us have marveled at Stan’s work, which has been phenomenal. The quality has been almost unequalled. But the complaints about slow response have been valid. This has also been true about many other modders. Maybe it goes with the territory.

When Stan modified my equipment, I often became disillusioned, and even aggravated, but I eventually got it all back. One unit took over a year. I certainly appreciate and sympathize with Bingo’s situation.

So why did I go back to Stan? I appreciated his work, and his very low prices. He almost gave his work away. Furthermore, when he initially created Supermods his response was slow but tolerable.

Stan is different than most modders, in that he has been an owner in two famous audio companies – PS Audio and Superphon. Now he has created a new Superphon. When I get his new unit, it will be great fun to compare it to the others. I suspect that it will be the best available and very hard to beat. I will let you know, and invite you over when I receive it.

So why would I buy from Stan, knowing the long wait? Being an audiophile, I am looking for the best, and I know that that best is seldom available on the shelf at a reasonable price. Now as he converts to a manufacturing business with the new Superphon, the risk is much lower, because I don’t have to send him a unit.

[Panelhead]

I seem to only do business with the small cottage types, Stan, Ric Shultz, Art Ferris, Glen Croft. All are infamous for their customer suipport. I paid for my first pair of Lowther drivers and waited over six months for them from Tony Glynn.
  Maybe this is why I build my own now. Maybe I did not care about waiting 6 -12 months for something.
  But if I was in the market for a nice linestage I would scurry over to JCC's house and give the new Superphon a good listen. I am sure it is a 4000.00 linestage for 1500.00. That is what Stan is good at.
  In fact I hope to go anyway. There is a stack of preamps in my closet that were the best I had heard at the time. A lowly Croft had me sell my VTL Ultimate and CAT after giving all three a good listen.  An Austin built 6080 based line did in the Croft. Both of them sit on top of the AI Mod 2D. My current jobbie would be in good company if it gets beat out.

                          George

[Carlman]

It seems like some of these innovative backyard audio designers should form a partnership with hard nosed maketing men who know how to run a company.
That would be a good match.

But most of them do not and try to do it all themselves being utter failures in the end

I agree.  However.... and it's a big however....  Small audio businesses are often run by hobbyists.

Some small audio-business owners want to produce just enough gear to make them happy as a side-business... for play money for their hobby...

There there are others want to grow the company... and maybe even sell it down the road...  and make millions.... and then there's every business ownership situation in between.  If you read between the lines a little, you can start to see that some people are in it for the money and others are in it for the love of hifi.  That can change along the way as well.  It's tough to market with such a broad range of goals and appeal...

So, there is no one answer because there is no one goal to owning a small business.

I know nothing about Stan Warren other than what I've read.  I've gotten out of the mod-mentality lately... If something sounds much better with a modification, maybe I should learn to do it if it's that important to have it.  And that's only if I can A/B the differences before I commit to the work.  But that's me...

L8r,
Carl

[OBF]

Bingo,

I suppose this does you no good what-so-ever since you can't get Stan to communicate with you, but I just thought I'd mention that there's a guy (dealer) very close to Stan in Corvallis, OR who used to modify and repair Hafler amps.

[lonewolfny42]

JCC :

I have a lot to report, and am looking for some help from AC members.

The builders are adding the finishing touches on my new audio room. Nathan at 8th Nerve is shipping his new Adapt room treatment. Now I need to start moving furniture and audio equipment. So in about a month I will have a state of the art listening environment.

I spoke to Stan Warren yesterday, and he is once again starting Superphon. His first product is the new Revelation III preamp. He is sending me an audition copy in about a month. Stan indicates that this new preamp is a single ended, class A buffer/preamplifier. The buffer stage is a unity gain impedance converter that provides a low output drive impedance and a high input impedance. With no gain or feedback, the signal path is simple and there are only five parts in the signal path.

You might have seen the post by Marbles on Akfest (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18191&highlight=akfest) talking about Stan's new preamp.

So heres the deal. I will have a new room with the new 8th Nerve Adapt Room Treatment, Stan's Revelation III, with my Daedalus DA-1 speakers set up for audition next month. I would like to invite AC members over (weekends only) to help me audition all of these great toys.

I hope that this will be the start of a Houston based Audio Club. Send me a PM if you are interested.
_________________
JCC

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=553 ...

[/list:u]This was JCC's post...open audition to hear his system. Why not return to it....enough with the Stan Warren problems...its "old" news. Thats my opinion.

[eric the red]

Yes Wolfy this is JCC's post and now he knows of some of the past experiences regular AC posters have had in their dealings with Stan Warren.

[lonewolfny42]

Yes Wolfy this is JCC's post and now he knows of some of the past experiences regular AC posters have had in their dealings with Stan Warren.

Good...and now we just need some Texans to go and listen to his system. Wish I was close-by.....