[nlitworld]

So this last week I picked up a Jolida SJ202A integrated amp for an ok deal on Craigslist. My previous setup was a Pioneer Elite avr and I wanted to give some tubes a try. It came with Gold Aero (Tesla) E34L and some EH 12AT7 and Tungsol 12AX7. The sound was nice and rich through the midrange, and as expected kinda wooly and muffled in the bass and upper treble regions. Coming from solid state that was to be expected, but I'd like to get that upper detail back and clean up the bass. Not concerned with a sledgehammer in the chest every time a drum pedal is kicked, but I'd like bass guitar to be clean and coherent and cymbals to sound real. I was excited to give this unit a try, because it seems that Jolida stuff is a tweaker delight when you feel like upgrading the internals and changing the design. My first thought was get some upgraded tubes and sorbothane feet, so I ordered a set of Gold Lion KT77 which will be here tomorrow. My real question though is whether to jump down the DIY upgrade path or enjoy it for a bit and sell it off for an upgrade. I'm not opposed to either, but I'm also realistic I am a working man with a budget and also that DIY gear never gets the resale value it deserves. The idea of learning how to diy some electronics sounds daunting but appealing provided I don't electrocute myself  . I've seen posts where they upgrade input rca, binding posts, caps, resistors, diodes, and remove volume and selector controls to turn it into straight amp after pairing it with a preamp. Current setup is NX-Studios in near-midfield setup with 2 svs sb2000 subs (running off speaker to line level diy connectors). I know I could also upgrade the caps on my tweeter to the V-Cap ODAM and that would also brighten things up compared to the CopperCaps that are in there. I dont really want to pull the speaker apart right now if I could help it. Again, not opposed to any of it though as I do like fiddling with gear. Room size is about 925ft³ and shelf space is a bit of a premium. Any advice is welcomed. 

-Lloyd

[Early B.]

Enjoy it for a while and sell it off. Not worth upgrading, IMO. Been there, done that with a Jolida SJ502A back in the day. Your NX-Studios deserve better than entry-level tube gear. 

[opnly bafld]

The sound was nice and rich through the midrange, and as expected kinda wooly and muffled in the bass and upper treble regions. Coming from solid state that was to be expected, but I'd like to get that upper detail back and clean up the bass. Not concerned with a sledgehammer in the chest every time a drum pedal is kicked, but I'd like bass guitar to be clean and coherent and cymbals to sound real.

Current setup is NX-Studios in near-midfield setup with 2 svs sb2000 subs (running off speaker to line level diy connectors).

 

Never experienced this when using subs, expectation bias?

[nlitworld]

Lol, could be expectation bias or just researching reviews prior to purchase. The bass is decent and rich tonally, but it lost a bit of definition and clarity below ~150hz. I still have some fiddling to do and take some REW measurements to see if subs just need to be adjusted with the new gear. I'm happy with the overall sound of tubes so I will certainly continue down that route for at least the foreseeable future. I'm aware it is budget tube gear but I was just wondering if putting an extra $400 in parts would be a worthy upgrade or just money down the drain.

[FullRangeMan]

Its well known that the 77 and 90 do not have a midrange so good as the 66 and 88. However what most improve the sound is the OPT, Hashimotos EI 20W around $500+ship so you could try Edcor or Hammond, not to mention skilled labor

IMO its not worth improve anything nor change the tubes, enjoy for a while and sell.

This amp are suited to drive a hi sensitivity FR driver directly, without the xover oscillations in a music lover small room without audiophile expectations. I think it would go well with an analogue turner.

[Tyson]

Lol, could be expectation bias or just researching reviews prior to purchase. The bass is decent and rich tonally, but it lost a bit of definition and clarity below ~150hz. I still have some fiddling to do and take some REW measurements to see if subs just need to be adjusted with the new gear. I'm happy with the overall sound of tubes so I will certainly continue down that route for at least the foreseeable future. I'm aware it is budget tube gear but I was just wondering if putting an extra $400 in parts would be a worthy upgrade or just money down the drain.

You'd be better off getting a different amp.  The Jolida's always were voiced pretty soft. 

[nlitworld]

Well I think that all answers what I need to know. I'll play with it for a while and save some pennies until I'm ready to upgrade. Thanks for all the info guys!

P.S. if anyone wants to sell off some tube gear for a smoking deal, let me know.

[WGH]

as expected kinda wooly and muffled in the bass and upper treble regions.

I was going to recommend JJ Electronics 12AT7 tubes. Bass would be tighter and treble brighter and sharper while remaining clear. Van Alstine uses the JJ 12AT7 as the stock tube in all the electronics they sell. I recently changed the JJs to NOS Mullard and Genalex Gold Lion to tame a little upper level brightness and warm up the sound. From your description it sounds like you want to go in the opposite direction.

Then I checked on current tube prices and at $100 for a set of four tubes it's an expensive experiment, as you say, maybe save your pennies.

[morganc]

Well I think that all answers what I need to know. I'll play with it for a while and save some pennies until I'm ready to upgrade. Thanks for all the info guys!

P.S. if anyone wants to sell off some tube gear for a smoking deal, let me know.

Economy is tanking.  Smoking deals around the corner on everything by January. 
A cheaper option to a high end tube amp is a tube pre and a Class D amp. For lower priced tube amp options, Ask Hobs on the GR Research team, he and Tyson have heard those speakers with a lot of amps.

I have a pair in HT duty and they sound phenomenal with a mid tier amp. 

Throw out a price range for your future purchase and I’m sure you’ll get some good ideas here.

And yes, from my perspective expensive is investing money on an amp that you won’t get back. I’ve bought and sold 50 or more amps in the last 15 years and I only have taken a loss on a couple of them that I bought new, otherwise I’ve bought used and done lots of research before buying and also have found guys here who have good ears that I trust.   Lots of good options out in the market now at any budget.

[nlitworld]

Thanks for the info. I'll save some pennies til I can jump in around the $1,500 mark. That seems to be the real spot to start looking at ok tube gear.

Since I'm not looking to have huge power amps or driving long cable runs, is something like a passive pre and tube amp combo something to option as well? That would be something I could incrementally buy in sections rather than saving up for one big splurge. Really at this point I'm a ball of curious questions on what my best upgrade path may be. I know I want a more 3d depth in soundstage (which the Jolida actually did help) but I want tone, clarity and drive as well. As always, any advice is welcomed.

[Early B.]

... is something like a passive pre and tube amp combo something to option as well?

Say, "No" to a passive pre. Tube preamp with a Class D amp or if you want to spend less money, save up at least $2K for a used integrated tube amp.

[Tyson]

I really like the Cary stuff.  The SLI80 would be a great match and includes a preamp because it's an integrated unit:

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649865778-cary-sli-80-integrated-tube-amplifier-black/

[nlitworld]

Wanted to give an update. The Gold Lion KT77 and 12AX7 really brought serious improvement over the Gold Aero (Tesla) E34L tubes. Much more linear and open sound rather than the hazy midrange bloom like LA smog in the evening. I have a set of Telefunken ECC801 for the 12AT7 slot that should bring an improvement over the Electro Harmonix. I figure tubes can easily be repurposed to another setup if this all is for not.

I will be saving pennies and shop for a Cary next year (bonus time). Tyson, I know you recommend that one a lot (or the SLI50 if ever to be found) and you sure know your way to good sound. I've never been steered wrong by you in the past. In the meantime, I've decided to treat this Jolida as an inexpensive/low-concequences opportunity to learn about working on tube amps. I am not expecting exceptional results to cure my upgraditis syndrome, just a fun project now that the weather is cold and nights are long. I picked up some hexfreds from Mouser, some inexpensive mundorf caps for in signal path, a pair of rca input jacks, binding posts and a resistor to drain the caps before digging in. I hear that's an important step these days.   Not going crazy with upgrading resistors or power supply caps with this project. Just looking to learn what changes sound and how, and improve my ability to solder on circuit boards and in tight spaces. My hope is to bring out a little more drive and clarity while still keeping that three dimensionality compared to my old avr. All in $ besides tubes, I'm out less than a monthly coffee budget in parts. Hopefully I learn some cool stuff out of it. If not, it was all cheap enough that I'm not out much $ at all and should be able to easily resell it for what I have into it.

[FullRangeMan]

Incredible, thanks for posting.