DAC ;DAC's auditions ; budget problems

rmihai0 · « **on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:32 pm »

I would like to try a DAC. I extensively listened in the past 6 months (at friends, dealers, etc) to quit a few DAC's. Some of them I liked, most of them I didn't liked. The bigest problem with the DAC's I didn't liked is that they were not responding the same to different kind of music. Some were sounding hursh on what should have been pleasent quit passages, others were sounding without balls and dynamics on complex music that was requiring a LOT of transients.

Because I don't like to ruin someone business, I will mention only those that I really liked:
- MSB TECHNOLOGY Platinium
- EMM Labs DCC2
- ESOTERIC D-01
- ORACLE DAC1000
- CHORD DAC 64
- Kora Hermes 2
- AUDIOMECA Enkianthus
- THETA Digital 8
- CHORD DAC 64
- North Star 192 DAC
- DCS Elgar Plus

Now, the main problem is that ANY of this is at least $1000 (and most of the times several thousands dollars more).

My question to you: Is there any DAC under a grand that you think can equal any of those that I liked?

JoshK · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:36 pm »

Were they all listening to in the same system?

The above mentioned is quite a list with a wide variety of strengths and presenations. Some are known to be analytical while others musical, so it doesn't seem that you lean one way or the other.

rmihai0 · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:47 pm »

Oh, sorry Josh. I couldn't listen to all this bunch of very expensive DAC's in the same system. I listened them to different dealers all over North America, or in other audiophile systems or simply at exhibitions.

Regarding analytical vs. "musical" I don't really like this categorizing. A piece of electronics should be able to properly reproduce ANY kind of sound that you throw into it.

konut · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:47 pm »

Benchmark DAC1

gongos · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:51 pm »

Which ones did you try and not like? I don't think you'll ruin anyone's business, and you'll save everyone from making useless posts.

rmihai0 · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:52 pm »

Sorry - my mistake. I should have specified more clearly. Is there any DAC up to $500!!! able to fight with the big monsters? Any giant killer?

For $975 Benchmark is already in the same price category as the previous mentioned.

JoshK · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:58 pm »

I find the differences in DAC most often is dwarfed by differences in other parts of the system, even the room. I am not saying DACs don't make a difference but unless you heard them all in the same system it would be damn near impossible to make any reasonable assumption, imho, about how they sound compared to eachother. I really don't know how you can get past this.

doug s. · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 09:55 pm »

in my system, i have auditioned the audio mirror (retail $500) non-oversampling dac, & two self-modded art di/o's (likely somewhere between a bolder cables smart & mensa di/o, but a little different than each). based upon this, i would recommend either of these, or the scott nixon or ack! dacs. while i haven't heard the s/n or the ack!, based upon what i have read from folk that compared 'em to the di/o, i have the same comments re: audio mirror vs di/o. some folk prefer one, some the other.

i have also heard my di/o in the same system that used electrocompaniet dac, & resolution audio cd50 & resolution audio opus cdp's. i wouldn't spend the extra $$$ on those; neither was demonstrably better than either the di/o or the audio-mirror, imo.

based upon yer personal tastes, i think you may prefer one of the non-os dacs or the di/o, but i don't think ya need to spend any more $$$...

doug s.

fabaudio · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 10:22 pm »

To cure mild to severe digititus or digitalis the scott-nixon dac

ctviggen · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 12:53 pm »

I have to agree with JoshK on this one. I have both the Ack Dack 1.2d and 2.0. The 2.0 still isn't fully broken in. Last night, I did a test between the 2.0 and using the DAC in my Proceed AVP. This is not an easy test -- it's very hard to tell the difference, especially because there's about 10dB difference in output between the Ack Dack 2.0 and the AVP. Anytime you switch between the two, you have to adjust the levels. And this test is done in the exact same system; I can't imagine comparing two completely different systems and rooms and DACs.

Once I receive another digital interconnects, I'll be able to compare the AVP and Ack Dacks 1.2d and 2.0 by switching between them. I will, however, be using different digital interconnects to connect the Ack Dacks, and I will not be able to switch the interconnects.

rmihai0 · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 02:04 pm »

Ok,

let's keep it simple. To you knowledge, there is any DAC out there with:
- 2 inputs
- able to decode 24-bits 192-khz
- NON-over-sampling!!!
- under $600 (used)

Thank you

JoshK · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 02:34 pm »

Quote from: rmihai0

Ok,

let's keep it simple. To you knowledge, there is any DAC out there with:
- 2 inputs
- able to decode 24-bits 192-khz
- NON-over-sampling!!!
- under $600 (used)

Thank you

I see an issue here. Your 2 & 3rd requirements are seemingly contradictory. I am no EE and know very little about DAC chips but I think most NonOS DACs are typically 24/96 or more commonly 16/48. Redbook CDs are 16/48 so with Non-OS only a 16/48 chip is needed. If you have any of the handful of DADs produced and use a DVD player as a transport, some will pass the 24/96 out to the DAC. AFAIK, there is no source that will pass a 24/192 signal, except those that up/over-sample before digital output, such as the Phillips 963sa.

doug s. · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 03:14 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

I see an issue here. Your 2 & 3rd requirements are seemingly contradictory. I am no EE and know very little about DAC chips but I think most NonOS DACs are typically 24/96 or more commonly 16/48. Redbook CDs are 16/48 so with Non-OS only a 16/48 chip is needed. If you have any of the handful of DADs produced and use a DVD player as a transport, some will pass the 24/96 out to the DAC. AFAIK, there is no source that will pass a 24/192 signal, except those that up/over-sample before digital output, such as the Phillips 963sa.

i'm w/ya here, josh, except for the fact that redbook cd is 16/44.1khz, not 16/48... non-os dacs are 16/44.1...

*and* i wouldn't necessarily want a non-os dac w/o an audition. tho i really enjoyed the non-os dac i tried, at the end of the day, i still prefer my modded art di/o...

also, re: multiple inputs, if yure interested in a dac that does not have them, there are other means of accomplishing this; here's one that i have used, & it's completely transparent (at least, *i* couldn't hear any degradation; in some cases, it may actually make it better?):

http://www.rdlnet.com/fp-spr1.htm

doug s.

JoshK · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 04:08 pm »

I see a couple of very interesting items on RDL's site, where do you by their wares?

doug s. · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 04:14 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

I see a couple of very interesting items on RDL's site, where do you by their wares?

i got my repeater from fullcompass.com, joel at X1116... fullcompass (and other pro-audio stores) usually offer good discounts on the retail prices of pro-audio gear...

http://fullcompass.com/

doug s.

JoshK · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 04:29 pm »

here is another solution

http://www.rdlnet.com/ru-spx4.htm

4 input selector & remote controllable. MSRP $286. Tranformer isolated.

I have a Zektor HDS4.1 which is a component video selector but it does digital selection as well with high quality relays. For the price you could use it for just digital audio, retails ~$299 but can be had for a little less.

doug s. · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 04:38 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

here is another solution

http://www.rdlnet.com/ru-spx4.htm

4 input selector & remote controllable. MSRP $286. Tranformer isolated.

I have a Zektor HDS4.1 which is a component video selector but it does digital selection as well with high quality relays. For the price you could use it for just digital audio, retails ~$299 but can be had for a little less.

ya, i have seen that one. it looks really nice. i think it was a bit more money, when i was looking. for what i needed, the unit i got was fine, & set me back ~$100, which included the extra x-former i needed...

doug s.

Horizons · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 07:06 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

I find the differences in DAC most often is dwarfed by differences in other parts of the system, even the room. I am not saying DACs don't make a difference but unless you heard them all in the same system it would be damn near impossible to make any reasonable assumption, imho, about how they sound compared to eachother. I really don't know how you can get past this.

I agree 100%.

Most DACs sound very similar. There ARE differences but they are tricky to pin down. Example:

I was using the Sony 222ES and I bought the basic Nixon DAC. I expected huge changes but it was only subtle. I thought it (Nixon) sounded a little smoother, less bright on top. But it was not a night and day difference. However, after listening to the Nixon for a few weeks or so I went back to using the standalone 222ES. Wow! It sounded bright, hard, compressed. etc.

It takes some long-term listening in one system to fully realize the differences IMHO.

audioengr · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 03:47 am »

dAck! is a good choice. Close to my reference DAC once it is modded. IF you are handy, just replace the output coupling caps with V-Caps. This makes a marked improvement.