[mix4fix]

I have never seen photographers fall in love with the camera and not the picture.

[charmerci]

I have never seen photographers fall in love with the camera and not the picture.

Just like the magazines which break down stereo equipment in great detail, you can find the same love of details of camera equipment. Guess which videos on YouTube get the most views, how to take a great photo or which camera to buy and equipment reviews?

[VinceT]

Let me get this right, you have to like all genres of music and not have nice gear in order to be a music lover?

[mix4fix]

Not at all. I used the cassette analogy to describe someone who has a personal connection with music. My connection with 80's music growing up. My connection with 90's music as a grown up. It will never die. Nobody is saying you have to have a cheap system to be a music lover.

Unfortunately, some people in our hobby are so worried about the equipment when they can't even just enjoy the music. They "cannot see the forest for the trees". They cannot see the big picture because the focus is too much on the details.

[VinceT]

People also enjoy the equipment aspect.

This is very true for some musicians too. Goto a musician forum and read what they talk about. They also obsess over guitars, amps, pedals, tubes like some audiophiles with audio. The great thing about being an audiophile is your can get better fidelity from equipment upgrades. With musicians a new Gibson is not going to make them a better guitar player. Same can be said for people that do any hobby that has equipment. Another hobby would be the RC car and planes folks. A couple hundred bucks here and there they gain a lot more performance. Same can be said for audiophiles. To each is own and everybody has thier own motivations.

[simoon]

Most audiophiles seem to be equipment lovers and not music lovers. A music lover could enjoy their favorite song/artist/genre on cassette recorded from the radio. Audiophiles seem to be worried about changing their setup when it was alright to begin with.

Arrgghhh.... not this old canard again

This is simply not true.

First of all, it is a false dichotomy. As if, either there are audiophiles, or music lovers and there is no overlap, or people that are both.

I belong to the largest audiophile club in the world, the LA Orange County Audio Society, and I have talked to enough of the other members to get a pretty good sample size. And the vast majority of them are "music first audiophiles". Their audio is mostly thought of as a vehicle to bring them closer to the music they love. Sure, there are certainly people that have a love for the gear too, but not more than the music.

I think most people who say this, have only met audiophiles on audio forums, or maybe audio shows, and of course in those circumstances, the subject at hand is audio. And the vast majority of discussions will be about...wait for it...audio gear.

So, what would you call me, as someone who has a pretty high end system, but at least 90% of the time, while listening to music, I forget all about the gear, and become completely involved with the music? Yet at other times, a few times a month, I will only pay attention to the gear, and maybe make small changes, or swap out a piece of equipment, and yes, even play nothing else besides 'audiophile approved recordings'?

Do I switch back and forth between being a music lover, and an audiophile? Or maybe your understanding of the vast majority of audiophiles is just a bit incorrect?

[simoon]

  I've been exposed to music all my life, so assumed I'm a music lover. However recent years has exposed that I'm very selective as to what music I like or consider good. As an audiophile I don't feel that I've had a good listening session when I'm listening/searching for new to me songs. I need to hear music that has selectively made it to my Playlists to feel satisfied with a good listening session.

So how about you? Can you truly call yourself a Music Lover? Is there genres, songs, etc. that you consider crap, if so can you really say that you are a Music Lover?

Yes, I am absolutely a music lover. For me, music is the best art form, by far.

The fact that my tastes* rule out many genres, does not disqualify me as a music lover, in the least.

In fact, I would say, that people that say they like all genres, are less of a music lover, since they are being undiscerning, and just taking everything that comes along.

*My tastes tend to only include genres with most or all of the following attributes: very high level of musicianship, deep and broad emotional and/or intellectual content, complexity in: chord progressions, time signatures, arrangements, soloing, (often) long song formats, avoidance of verse>chorus>verse structure, avoidance of an obvious 'hook'.

Included in the genres and subgenres that fit the above attributes, are: jazz (fusion, chamber-jazz, avant-garde, post-bop, M-Base), classical (atonal, serial, spectralism, avant-garde, contemporary), and prog (classic prog, avant-prog, Canterbury, Zeuhl, chamber-prog, prog-metal). Also, a bit of Indian classical music, and a bit of bluegrass.

Mainstream rock, pop, hip-hop, country do nothing for me.

[FullRangeMan]

+1.
adding Ambient Music.

[toocool4]

In fact, I would say, that people that say they like all genres, are less of a music lover, since they are being undiscerning, and just taking everything that comes along.

I disagree with that statement, there are good and bad in every genre, it’s a case of weeding out the good from the bad.
 
Using your own words “Mainstream rock, pop, hip-hop, country do nothing for me.” There are good and bad in what you listed and it’s a case of digging down and finding the good stuff, not everyone wants to invest or have the time to dig out the diamond in the rough. That is fine but don't generalise and say those genres are all bad as you have not tried them all.
The people that generalise and dismiss things are so closed minded that they miss something good because they say for example all pop or hip hop are rubbish, they can only say that if they have listened to every song in that genre and I bet they have not.

[mix4fix]

Arrgghhh.... not this old canard again

This is simply not true.

First of all, it is a false dichotomy. As if, either there are audiophiles, or music lovers and there is no overlap, or people that are both.

I belong to the largest audiophile club in the world, the LA Orange County Audio Society, and I have talked to enough of the other members to get a pretty good sample size. And the vast majority of them are "music first audiophiles". Their audio is mostly thought of as a vehicle to bring them closer to the music they love. Sure, there are certainly people that have a love for the gear too, but not more than the music.

I think most people who say this, have only met audiophiles on audio forums, or maybe audio shows, and of course in those circumstances, the subject at hand is audio. And the vast majority of discussions will be about...wait for it...audio gear.

So, what would you call me, as someone who has a pretty high end system, but at least 90% of the time, while listening to music, I forget all about the gear, and become completely involved with the music? Yet at other times, a few times a month, I will only pay attention to the gear, and maybe make small changes, or swap out a piece of equipment, and yes, even play nothing else besides 'audiophile approved recordings'?

Do I switch back and forth between being a music lover, and an audiophile? Or maybe your understanding of the vast majority of audiophiles is just a bit incorrect?

I am a music lover. I enjoy many songs from different genres. I don't complain about equipment performance unless it is really bad. There are multiple audiophilic brands I would gladly take home tomorrow. I am not choosy. I am more interested in what you play.

I challenge people to have an audio meet and not play jazz, classical, or any other audiophile approved music.

Enjoy the fact that you are rocking out to Boston, not the fact that a that one copy isn't as perfect as another.

[drummermitchell]

I still listen to tunes in my vehicles....AM/FM and the six figure system down stairs.
I even listen to the odd musician in front of a cafe.
Stupid topic,guess some need some sand in their teeth,
Have a good one and turn up those old songs on the radio.

[FullRangeMan]

Dont need to be a Toscanini to know that certain genres of ''music'' are garbage as heavy metal and its variants, pop 40, hip-hop, rap, reggaeton and many others. To not be unfair the Changes(BS) song is good.

The main prob of this latrine is that it have corrupted childrens ability to appreciate quality music, which has created the current situation of musical degenerates where since the 1990s we have a audience of musical flies unable to listen Classical or even Jazz.
50 millions flies cant be wrong eat shit...

[Mag]

No, that's in the realm of audiophile. I recall hearing what I thought was the sound of a beer bottle smashing on stage. Probably fell from an amp, but I can't remember which song it was, it'll come to me.

Okay, I think the song is Dust in the Wind by the Scorpions from the Acoustica album. I listened carefully and did not hear a beer bottle smash. Perhaps is was a bongo or wood percussion instrument that I heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO29FkM6LZM&ab_channel=SergeyB

[Yog Sothoth]

Dont need to be a Toscanini to know that certain genres of ''music'' are garbage as heavy metal and its variants, pop 40, hip-hop, rap, reggaeton and many others. To not be unfair the Changes(BS) song is good.

The main prob of this latrine is that it have corrupted childrens ability to appreciate quality music, which has created the current situation of musical degenerates where since the 1990s we have a audience of musical flies unable to listen Classical or even Jazz.
50 millions flies cant be wrong eat shit...

I'm confused.  I always thought that the beauty of music was in the ear of the beholder.  Does this imply that there's some sort of algorithm wherein all music can be objectively determined to be good or bad?

[VinceT]

Dont need to be a Toscanini to know that certain genres of ''music'' are garbage as heavy metal and its variants, pop 40, hip-hop, rap, reggaeton and many others. To not be unfair the Changes(BS) song is good.

The main prob of this latrine is that it have corrupted childrens ability to appreciate quality music, which has created the current situation of musical degenerates where since the 1990s we have a audience of musical flies unable to listen Classical or even Jazz.
50 millions flies cant be wrong eat shit...

Music always innovates. It innovates and evolves around the trends of the times. You reference EP, who essentially was an innovator and evolved rock n roll from other genres.

Unfortunately music today has innovated in a way that many find not pleasant or relatable.  MTV, video games, digital, you tube,  social media, being attractive, big record corporations etc all have an influence in these trends. The 50s, 60s, 70s , even the 80s there wasn't as much outside media influencing music innovation. Innovation was based more on expanding genres and musical talents then subjecting to modern day media which unfortunately has lowered the overall musicianship of mainstream popular music. Visual and social takes preference over musicianship. Old = bad today. When I was younger we knew all the greats that came before us and appreciated those old foggy musicians. Kids today growing up with technology, like the digital tones versus actual instruments. It almost seems if things are too complex it is lost on modern listeners. 4/4 timing prevails. Driving bass drum on 1..2..3...4.... that drum beat is basically 80% of modern music. If you look at metal.... reggaetón...rap.... it' gets pretty samey because musically there isn't really anywhere else to go with it. Now you have rappers mumbling....that's a new genre of rap "mumble rap". They are trying to innovate but it's tough. Country music is another example. You went from Johnny Cash, to everything sounding like Nickelback, to now hip hop with cowboy hats. Of course I am generalizing ...lol This subject is actually much more complex like a lot of things in life. Many factors play a role in music evolution.

[simoon]

I disagree with that statement, there are good and bad in every genre, it’s a case of weeding out the good from the bad.
 
Using your own words “Mainstream rock, pop, hip-hop, country do nothing for me.” There are good and bad in what you listed and it’s a case of digging down and finding the good stuff, not everyone wants to invest or have the time to dig out the diamond in the rough. That is fine but don't generalise and say those genres are all bad as you have not tried them all.
The people that generalise and dismiss things are so closed minded that they miss something good because they say for example all pop or hip hop are rubbish, they can only say that if they have listened to every song in that genre and I bet they have not.

I never said that those genres are bad, or there isn't any good music in those genres. I said they don't do anything for ME.

In fact, I think I can recognize well grafted pop, mainstream rock, country and hip hops songs, with good melodies, catchy hooks, good harmonies, etc, etc. I can hear a good song in one of these genres, and recognize it as such, but then the next thought that comes to my mind is, "so what?", "it's a good pop song".

But I want something more than a 'good song' when I listen to music.

[FullRangeMan]

Not a EP fan just used thecover as a reference to the title.
Other examples>
John Lennon

[FullRangeMan]

Bieber:

[FullRangeMan]

Beethoven:

[VinceT]

Not a EP fan just used thecover as a reference to the title.
Other examples>
John Lennon

Point taken, you're not a fan of EP...Bieber it is