[Merle]

I recently moved into a new house. I bought a new system for the house and now find the room I was intending to use is too small. I'll be moving the stereo down to the basement, a rather large room. I bought a nice pair of B&W N705's, intending to use them in the small room. Now, in the larger room, I find they do not produce enough bass. Instead of moving the B&W's and starting over, I'm thinking about adding a subwoofer. I've never used one and have heard horror stories about trying to integrate a subwoofer. My amps are a Classe CA200 and CP47.5. Is adding a sub a good idea? Can anyone recommend a quality sub and give me any tips on what to look out for? Thanks.

[Kevin P]

It's not so much the sub as the room problems caused by getting more low frequency response.   I'd read some in the Acoustics forum first.... Some good wide band low frequency absorption will make your subwoofer addition go much easier.

[doug s.]

I recently moved into a new house. I bought a new system for the house and now find the room I was intending to use is too small. I'll be moving the stereo down to the basement, a rather large room. I bought a nice pair of B&W N705's, intending to use them in the small room. Now, in the larger room, I find they do not produce enough bass. Instead of moving the B&W's and starting over, I'm thinking about adding a subwoofer. I've never used one and have heard horror stories about trying to integrate a subwoof ...

i would strongly recommend *two* subs.  *everything* will be better - soundstaging, less distortion, less room interaction...  also, get an outboard active x-over to cross the subs to your monitors.  your monitors will sound better w/o having to see any signal below your chosen x-over point.  


vmps makes killer passive subs; i defer to others for actives.  but, for decent bass on the cheap, i *can* recommend looking for used yamaha yst-sw305 active subs.  w/two forward-firing 8" servo-controlled drivers, these are -3db at 28hz, -10db at 20hz.  in-room response will be better.  i have a pair of these in a ~16x24 room, & the bass is wery good.  no, not as good as my pair of vmps largers, but they're good enuff so that i don't feel i need to spend silly money that i see some folk spending on powered subs.  and, you can still use these w/an active x-over.  yamaha has replaced this sub w/the yst-sw315 - a single down-firing 10"-driver sub w/the same specs.  never heard it, but a buddy of mine got one for one of his non-audiophile friends, & he said it was really amazing for the money.  you can get these on line (and on ebay) for ~$200 shipped...

doug s.

[Horizons]

Sub integration is one of the bigger audiophile myths IMHO. I have never heard a setup that couldn't be fixed by crossing over the sub lower and rolling it off faster. Most sub integration problems are caused by high xover points (>100 Hz) and too gentle slopes (6 db/12 db/octave).

[doug s.]

Sub integration is one of the bigger audiophile myths IMHO. I have never heard a setup that couldn't be fixed by crossing over the sub lower and rolling it off faster. Most sub integration problems are caused by high xover points (>100 Hz) and too gentle slopes (6 db/12 db/octave).

i dunno.  i personally have never had sub integration issues, w/quite a wariety of different speakers.   of course, i have experience only w/low x-over points, high crossover slopes, & use of a pair of subs!  

doug s.

[Jay S]

Personally, I chose an ACI Force sub since it has a low XO (as low as 35 Hz) and dual 2nd order filters which, combined are like a 4th order filter.  I have both filters set to 35 or 40 Hz.  Seems to integrate fine with my speakers.  One reason I got a Force instead of a Titan was to have the option to get a 2nd one down the road.  Of course, cost aside, it is possible to have 2 Titans.

[mcrespo71]

i would strongly recommend *two* subs.  *everything* will be better - soundstaging, less distortion, less room interaction...  also, get an outboard active x-over to cross the subs to your monitors.  your monitors will sound better w/o having to see any signal below your chosen x-over point.  


vmps makes killer passive subs; i defer to others for actives.  but, for decent bass on the cheap, i *can* recommend looking for used yamaha yst-sw305 active subs.  w/two forward-firing 8" servo-controlled driver ...

YES!!!!  You never let me down on the two sub recommendation, doug!  Never ever!  However, I agree with your assertion- oh, consistent one!

Michael

[rosconey]

theres a large vmps sub on agon for 200$-how close to boston are you?
you wont find a better deal for 200$ sub -EVER

[doug s.]

YES!!!!  You never let me down on the two sub recommendation, doug!  Never ever!  However, I agree with your assertion- oh, consistent one!

Michael

hi michael,

i guess there is one exception i would have to using two subs.  that's using *four*, w/the second pair behind the listening position on the rear wall, wired outta phase.  

doug s.

[doug s.]

theres a large vmps sub on agon for 200$-how close to boston are you?
you wont find a better deal for 200$ sub -EVER

yup, yure right rosconey - i saw that & started drooling.     only thing is, it's the older upright wersion (which i personally prefer), which means you will have to beg brian cheney to do up a one-off for ya, for that second one, or wait a while to find another used one f/s...

doug s.

[rosconey]

just run it in stereo-they work great this way-

[doug s.]

just run it in stereo-they work great this way-

the older iteration likely wouldn't work as well as the new ones for running in stereo using only one sub, as the drivers are on top of each other, not l-r as per the new "lowboy" styling...

doug s.

[rosconey]

i've had mine on its side before-sounds the same-
with a low crossover(under90) its non directional anyway-

[doug s.]

i've had mine on its side before-sounds the same-
with a low crossover(under90) its non directional anyway-

you have had an old one on its side, so the two drivers are next to each other, & heard no improvement?

re: non-directional bass, w/my larger subs flanking my monitors, even w/the x-over set at 70hz, the soundstaging was degraded if i engaged the "mono sum" switch on my marchand x-over...  psychicanimal noticed the same thing, w/his marchand at 80hz...

doug s.

[doug s.]

i've had mine on its side before-sounds the same-
with a low crossover(under90) its non directional anyway-

you have had an old one on its side, so the two drivers are next to each other, & heard no improvement?

re: non-directional bass, w/my larger subs flanking my monitors, even w/the x-over set at 70hz, the soundstaging was degraded if i engaged the "mono sum" switch on my marchand x-over...  psychicanimal noticed the same thing, w/his marchand at 80hz...

doug s.

[doug s.]

i've had mine on its side before-sounds the same-
with a low crossover(under90) its non directional anyway-

you have had an old one on its side, so the two drivers are next to each other, & heard no improvement?

re: non-directional bass, w/my larger subs flanking my monitors, even w/the x-over set at 70hz, the soundstaging was degraded if i engaged the "mono sum" switch on my marchand x-over...  psychicanimal noticed the same thing, w/his marchand at 80hz...

doug s.

[orthobiz]

I've got a REL B2 sitting in the box in a corner of my room behind and off to the side of my Dahlquists. Will hook it up soon. REL recommends Track 4 from the soundtrack to the movie Sneakers to help with hookup. I have the RS meter and the Rives audio disc (I prefer the "scientific" approach empirically, but who knows, maybe I can tune and hear it).

Mirroring what some have said, the lower the crossover point, in general, the better. Or maybe better said that the xover point is often surprisingly low. With the bantam-weight DQ woofers, my shoppe is thinking below 40 Hz.

Will keep you posted.

biz