[Mad DOg]

nathanm certainly has hit on a few more valid points...

another thing that we're not considering are the multitudes of other hobbies folks may have. some folks choose to spend their disposable income on motorcycles. others on cars or boats. others still on bicycles. heck, there are plenty of folks who will stare at you strangely if you were to tell them you owned a Merlin or Moots that cost nearly $5K!

there's only a finite amount of $ and leisure time. some of us choose to spend it on audio.

[warnerwh]

You should see what people spend on race cars that are hardly used.  Or airplanes that sit in hangars nearly all the time.  I think our hobby is totally reasonable in that you can enjoy it regularly.

[eric the red]

The clutch on a McLaren F1 road car (62 manufactured-$1,000,000.00 used) lasts 4-5000 miles. You have to ship the car to the McLaren factory in England for its scheduled major service ($40,000.00 for a major tune up). But then if I'm Jay Leno...
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_coll_leno/1302956.html

[audionut101]

Im not talking about dealer cost... I'm talking about liquidation prices.  I got some old genesis speakers and dunlavy speakers on the insanely cheap when they both went under.  If the price is right, I wouldnt mind trying some meadowlarks.

[BeeBop]

Something to think about when mourning the travails of the North American audio industry. Those of you who are acquainted with international finance might want to mull over the current US dollar/Chinese Yuan exchange rate, kept artificially low for years by the Chinese government (some say as much as 40% below what it should be). This makes Chinese goods much cheaper than they might otherwise be. This topic was going to be on the agenda at the next G7 meeting until China mysteriously announced it was not going to attend. The US Congress is starting to make noises about slapping tariffs on Chinese goods.

[ctviggen]

While I agree that some hobbies seem to be insane, for me, biking is much better for my health than listening to music/HT.  I've lost well over 40 pounds and completed my first century (100 miles) through biking.  I plan on losing another 40 pounds and completing several centuries this year.  On the other hand, when I listen to music/watch movies, I'm much more likely to drink beer/eat bad food.   Plus, I'm just sitting there in one place. I've since tried to watch what I drink/eat when listening to music, but it's a process where habits are hard to change.  So, if I had to choose between biking and stereo/HT, I'd choose biking.  On the other hand, I've spent way, way, way more money on my stereo system than on biking.  When there are $1,000 interconnects, and a very, very nice bike costs $2,000, and you need several sets of interconnects (then there are power cords, speaker cable, DACs, the list goes on and on and on), biking ends up being much cheaper.

[PhilNYC]

Those of you who are acquainted with international finance might want to mull over the current US dollar/Chinese Yuan exchange rate, kept artificially low for years by the Chinese government (some say as much as 40% below what it should be). This makes Chinese goods much cheaper than they might otherwise be. This topic was going to be on the agenda at the next G7 meeting until China mysteriously announced it was not going to attend. The US Congress is starting to make noises about slapping tariffs on Chinese goods....

Something else to consider, tho, is that once the Chinese float their currency, it will potentially have a significant effect on the price of oil (given the massive growth of China's oil/gas consumption...a stronger yuan will drive the price of oil up accordingly)...and we all know what that will do to the US economy...

[BeeBop]

On the other hand it will also make Chinese goods less competitive, which will slow their export-based economic growth and lower their consumption of oil.

[JoshK]

I wouldn't hold your breathe waiting for Shanghai to float the Reminbi.  I don't think they plan to do anything as drastic as what western financiers expect.

[PhilNYC]

BeeBop...very true.  But it would also cause inflation all over the world...

Josh...yep, no doubt...although didn't a Chinese official say somewhat recently that they were thinking about pegging their currency to the Euro instead of the dollar?  Their exports to Europe have been growing significantly, and they cited the instability of the dollar as one of the drivers...

[doug s.]

Something else to consider, tho, is that once the Chinese float their currency, it will potentially have a significant effect on the price of oil (given the massive growth of China's oil/gas consumption...a stronger yuan will drive the price of oil up accordingly)...and we all know what that will do to the US economy...

then, wait see what happens when opec decides to switch to the euro, instead of the dollar, as its trading currency.  

doug s.

[BeeBop]

I wouldn't hold your breathe waiting for Shanghai to float the Reminbi.  I don't think they plan to do anything as drastic as what western financiers expect.

Yeah I think someone would have to twist their arm pretty badly to get them to do this, and that's one helluva big arm.

[skrivis]

let's take the high side and assume that it is $70K/yr. that breaks down to $5.8K/month assuming they don't participate in a before tax investment/retirement plan before Uncle Sam gets his mandatory cut. after Sammy gets his cut of say 25%, they're left w/ $4,350. housing incl prop tax and insurance will be say, $1,500. they're down to $2,850. two car payments and insurance will be $850. they're down to $2,000. food for a family of 4 might be $800. they're down to $1,200 utilities will be another $200. they're down to $1,000 other incidental expenses such as gas, entertainment, and other stuff might run another $500 if this isn't a heavy shopping family. they're down to $500 left for disposable income! and this scenario doesn't account for any pre or post tax retirement savings, vacation funds, lessons for kids, private school, kids' college fund, etc.

now let's put together a budget van alstine based system...

omegastar preamp: $600
omegastar 240EX amp: $900
biro l/1 speakers: $1600
any ol' budget dvdp or cdp: $200
misc cables: $30 for 2 prs IC and 1 pr of SC
shipping: $120
total: $3450

$3,450 is 5% of this family's annual income. most people can't justify spending 5% of their annual income on a music system. which is why folks look as us like we're nutso!

This also points out why companies like AVA are so good. That preamp is probably the equal of many another $6000 preamp, which would be totally out of the question for this example family.

AVA is also good about providing an upgrade path. They'll put the latest circuitry in your old hardware. They'll also broker your used equipment if that's the way you want to go.

I bought a Halfer DH-220 kit years ago, upgraded the power supply with a kit from AVA, then had Mosfet C circuits installed, and most recently sent it back to be upgraded to OmegaStar. I may send it back yet again for the EX outputs.

I'd never have been able to afford the system I have now if I hadn't been able to do it piecemeal, and with re-use of as much as possible.

Besides that, I'm helping the environment by recycling.  

[skrivis]

Something to think about when mourning the travails of the North American audio industry. Those of you who are acquainted with international finance might want to mull over the current US dollar/Chinese Yuan exchange rate, kept artificially low for years by the Chinese government (some say as much as 40% below what it should be). This makes Chinese goods much cheaper than they might otherwise be. This topic was going to be on the agenda at the nex ... The US Congress is starting to make noises about slapping tariffs on Chinese goods.

Tariffs never do any good. They just shift a burden from one part of your population to another...

[doug s.]

BeeBop wrote:
Something to think about when mourning the travails of the North American audio industry. Those of you who are acquainted with international finance might want to mull over the current US dollar/Chinese Yuan exchange rate, kept artificially low for years by the Chinese government (some say as much as 40% below what it should be). This makes Chinese goods much cheaper than they might otherwise be. This topic was going to be on the agenda at the nex ... The US Congress is starting to make noises about slapping tariffs on Chinese goods.


Tariffs never do any good. They just shift a burden from one part of your population to another...
skrivis    
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: doug s. and byteme are right on

and, bottom line is, no matter how cheap this *real* audio system seems to us, joe six-pack would laugh out loud at the thought of spending so much money on an integrated amp & two small loudspeakers.

doug s.

[Red Dragon Audio]

and, bottom line is, no matter how cheap this *real* audio system seems to us, joe six-pack would laugh out loud at the thought of spending so much money on an integrated amp & two small loudspeakers.

doug s.

Until Joe Sixpack actually sits down to listen to a *real* stereo with some of his own music...then you start hearing things coming out of his mouth like;

"...I never knew this CD sounded like this..."

or

"...WOW!  I've never heard the drums sound so good...almost like they were real..."



Seriously though, a *real* stereo can be what Joe Sixpack has at his house but only needs a bit 'o' tweaking.  Speaker placement, a few small room treatments then perhaps a new set of speakers later on down the road with a little hand holding and voila!!

a new audio addict is born!  

[rosconey]

i recently sold my yamaha rxv1 to a friend(early 20's) he had bought a cheap set of 5.1 speakers(real real cheap) when i saw them i laughed my ass off-so i gave him a bic center i had -he called the next day and said the center was so much better than the other speakers ,he wanted to find out where to buy a pair of l-r to match-he called again the other night ,he bought a pair of bic towers he now realises what decent equipment can do-

next we are going to build a sub-im trying to talk him into the new driver and pr from gr research-i couldnt talk him into a trip to boston for the vmps large on agon -also talked about doing a infinite baffle

[Panelhead]

i recently sold my yamaha rxv1 to a friend(early 20's) he had bought a cheap set of 5.1 speakers(real real cheap) when i saw them i laughed my ass off-so i gave him a bic center i had -he called the next day and said the center was so much better than the other speakers ,he wanted to find out where to buy a pair of l-r to match-he called again the other night ,he bought a pair of bic towers he now realises what decent equipment can do-

next we are going to build a sub-im trying to talk him into ...

  In my kids playroom there is a cheap video system. I added a 30 year old Marantz 2238 reciever, a 50.00 pair of Polk R-15 speakers, and some decent diy cables. Even with a 39.00 dvd player the sound is very good.
  I could live with the sound quality. Joe Sixpack would never care about improving on it. It is a real case of diminishing returns.
  Kind of like these cheap digital amps. They sound better than they should already. 5.00 in parts upgrades and they sing with the top dogs.
  My kids will most likely have a sound system that beats mine easily in 10 years, for 1/10 the cost.


                           George

[Red Dragon Audio]

has there been any recent news or developments over the past few days with Meadowlark and Pat McGinty?

[bikeman]

has there been any recent news or developments over the past few days with Meadowlark and Pat McGinty?

Ros and I aren't too far from the scene of the "crime" so I'm sure one of us will post something if it's in the news.

David