[77SunsetStrip]

Environmentally friendly, Green, Sustainable, and similar slogans of the day facilitate disconnection with common sense and individual critical thinking.  CNN, BBC, etc. craft attention grabbing headlines as absolute truths without ever providing a complete picture.  How many times have frightening headlines told us something is harmful.  Weeks, months or years later we learn the predicted outcome is based on ingesting 5, 10, 20, or 100 times the amount of substance X reasonably plausible in a lifetime.  This is not to say no substance is harmful.  There are real dangers to identify and mitigate.  Chicken Little shouting everything will kill you is neither true or helpful.

Perfect example is the hyper focus on CO2.  Debate about volcano or human production of CO2 is a smokescreen to hide facts of science.  CO2 is not a greenhouse gas, regardless of what the ACTOR Bill Nye claims.  Simple experiments appearing on You Tube that "prove" CO2 traps heat are not in the least scientific or true.  Science tells us that CO2 in the atmosphere for hundreds of thousands of years was many times higher than current levels.  In addition, there have been long cycles of increased and decreased concentrations with a long term declining trend.  If CO2 was actually a greenhouse gas, humans would not be here. Current CO2 concentration is about 450 ppm.  The Earth has experienced levels over 6000 ppm.  Plant life ends at 150 ppm, which means human life ends.  How close do you want to approach 150 ppm?  Human produced CO2 that has produced a tiny ppm increase is not a crisis.

The Green all electric no CO2 future is a fantasy.  Simple logical and fact based scrutiny clearly shows the raw material necessary cannot be produced.  A 10% increase in worldwide production requires massive infrastructure expansion requiring financial resources that do not exist.  To achieve the dream of a Green future, production would have to increase 700% to 1000%.  Simply not possible.  Even if an alternate reality existed, going Green in the way currently imagined would consume material and financial resources that do not exist and attempt to solve a contrived and false crisis.

[bkatbamna]

Millenials would push the button to exterminate their own grandparents if someone told them it would make the world more "sustainable".

[twitch54]

Well, with the recent tragedy in E Palestine, Oh. I suspect PVC isn't getting much love these days     

[newzooreview]

"Polyvinyl chloride (alternatively: poly(vinyl chloride), colloquial: polyvinyl, or simply vinyl; abbreviated: PVC) is the world's third-most widely produced synthetic polymer of plastic (after polyethylene and polypropylene). About 40 million tons of PVC are produced each year."

Hmmm. Yeah, I'm sure that train was headed to one of the major east coast LP producers, and if we banned LPs the people of East Palestine would have been spared their suffering.

It's better to ban LPs than to look into the issues that might have contributed to the disaster. Let me know where we can go to protest the production of vinyl LPs and make sure this never happens again.

[FullRangeMan]

The prob is not music LPs but suspicious disasters like these last 3 in Ohio, more than 500K litres or gallons of carcinogenic chemical products dumped in that city.

[whydontumarryit]

"Polyvinyl chloride (alternatively: poly(vinyl chloride), colloquial: polyvinyl, or simply vinyl; abbreviated: PVC) is the world's third-most widely produced synthetic polymer of plastic (after polyethylene and polypropylene). About 40 million tons of PVC are produced each year."

Hmmm. Yeah, I'm sure that train was headed to one of the major east coast LP producers, and if we banned LPs the people of East Palestine would have been spared their suffering.

It's better to ban LPs than to look into the issues that might have contributed to the disaster. Let me know where we can go to protest the production of vinyl LPs and make sure this never happens again.

I'm taking a stand by burning all of my LPs.

The CDC decided to revise the toxicity level allowed for vinyl chloride from 100ppm to 100,000ppm 11 days before the disaster.
Go figure.

[Letitroll98]

I'm not sure if talk about anthropogenic climate change is science or politics, I'll try to stay in the scientific arena.  There is absolutely no doubt that climate change is a clear and present danger to life on earth.  The latest IPCC report concludes that all previous models underestimated feedback loops and global warming is occuring at a much faster rate than models had predicted.  The IPCC reports are compiled by over 160 interdisciplinary scientists from over 140 different countries, precluding any concerns of bias.  We've all heard that figure of 97% of scientists confirming all of this as fact, which is incorrect.  Now virtually 100% of climatologists publishing in the field agree anthropogenic climate change is real and is an immediate danger to life, there is no longer any doubt on the subject save unqualified people with agendas.

[mav52]

So much going on in this world regarding pollution and someone is worried about how LP's are made. If ya fix the really big causes the rest will take care of itself.

[bkatbamna]

I don't care.  China is polluting enough for everyone so environmentally non-polluting records will not make any difference.  And, someone let the BBC "journalist" who wrote that article know that my pronouns are "f---" and "you".

[rollo]

I'm not sure if talk about anthropogenic climate change is science or politics, I'll try to stay in the scientific arena.  There is absolutely no doubt that climate change is a clear and present danger to life on earth.  The latest IPCC report concludes that all previous models underestimated feedback loops and global warming is occuring at a much faster rate than models had predicted.  The IPCC reports are compiled by over 160 interdisciplinary scientists from over 140 different countries, precluding any concerns of bias.  We've all heard that figure of 97% of scientists confirming all of this as fact, which is incorrect.  Now virtually 100% of climatologists publishing in the field agree anthropogenic climate change is real and is an immediate danger to life, there is no longer any doubt on the subject save unqualified people with agendas.

  Or other scientists who disagree and are shunned. Follow the grant money. Follow the green money. My opinion.

charles

[bkatbamna]

Over 95% of scientists agree......
....with whoever is paying their grants.

[bkatbamna]

BTW, I like global warming.  Cold kills more people than warming anyways.  Also, I want to be able to play tennis outdoors here during winter.  At present there are certain days when it is possible but I want more days to do so.

[S Clark]

Vinyl records are incredibly environmentally friendly.  They take carbon from the ecosystem, press it into a durable product, and then they get passed down from generation to generation. Not many well treated records go into the scrap pile. 

[fridays]

It’s called Climate Change…. No Shit

[FullRangeMan]

If famous scientists do not support the Official Science version they will lose their positions and funds quickly, even knowing that Ozone (O³) is a volatile gas, since it is composed of 3 oxygen molecules.

[Letitroll98]

  Or other scientists who disagree and are shunned. Follow the grant money. Follow the green money. My opinion.

charles

Over 95% of scientists agree......
....with whoever is paying their grants.

This argument is patently ridiculous.  Certainly the fossil fuel industry has at least as much money to spend as the renewable energy sector, and likely billions more.  So if climatologists are all bought off with grant money, just as many or more should be publishing pro fossil fuel industry tropes.  But they aren't, and they aren't "bought off"with grant money looking for predetermined results.  The false narrative that all the world's scientists are on the take for grant money is magical, childlike thinking, it's conspiracy theory stuff.

Here's the proof: https://www.ipcc.ch/ar6-syr/

If you disagree please post the studies backing up your claims.

I'll note that there is a major political component to all of this that I'm staying entirely away from and I encourage all members to do the same.

[S Clark]

This argument is patently ridiculous.  Certainly the fossil fuel industry has at least as much money to spend as the renewable energy sector, and likely billions more.  So if climatologists are all bought off with grant money, just as many or more should be publishing pro fossil fuel industry tropes.  But they aren't, and they aren't "bought off"with grant money looking for predetermined results.  The false narrative that all the world's scientists are on the take for grant money is magical, childlike thinking, it's conspiracy theory stuff.

Here's the proof: https://www.ipcc.ch/ar6-syr/

If you disagree please post the studies backing up your claims.

I'll note that there is a major political component to all of this that I'm staying entirely away from and I encourage all members to do the same.

Spot on, Letitroll.  And to make this point more emphatically, they should post peer reviewed studies.  There is no shortage of intentionally misleading information that can be quoted, but nothing that can stand up to peer review.   

[rollo]

   Two sides to every story. Since the 1970's on the World was ending or we would be under water in NYC. Gee Never happened. So here we go again. I have no skin in the game or have to prove a thing. Follow the money. Green money that is. Scientists who disagree get no grant money. They changed the model to suit their narrative. So many questions. Science is MEANT to be questioned. Again my view point

charles

[rollo]

Spot on, Letitroll.  And to make this point more emphatically, they should post peer reviewed studies.  There is no shortage of intentionally misleading information that can be quoted, but nothing that can stand up to peer review.

  Why cannot it be questioned ? Is that what Science is all about ? I do not have to prove shit. It is my take on the matter.

your buddy charles

 

[Cyber One]

   Follow the money.

" Follow the money"the one thing that trumps "science". Gore made $24 million on his first movie, now he's back selling more fear.
Do you know how many coal burning plants one eastern country has built since that movie?
facts out weight "science" in this world of greed.