Back from Montreal.

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klaus@odyssey

Back from Montreal.
« on: 6 Apr 2005, 08:56 pm »
OK,  slept  14 hrs,  and back to normal here,  except for the dazed and confused part.

Will address everything in the next day or so,

Klaus

Brian

Back from Montreal.
« Reply #1 on: 6 Apr 2005, 09:20 pm »
Hi Klaus

Congrats on getting the Soundstage Award. The award it self looks nice.

Brian

pugs

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« Reply #2 on: 6 Apr 2005, 09:36 pm »
It was this time last year I bought the demo Loreleis used in the Montreal show.  Yesterday, I was telling my wife I wish I still had them.  Her response was, "Yeah, they sounded really good".  The issues I had with them before are pretty much a non factor now.

I'm paying two mortgages right now, but as soon as I sell my old house, I may be calling Klaus again.  I'm so sick of my NHT 2.5i, I barely listen to music anymore.  It's kind of sad.

rosconey

Back from Montreal.
« Reply #3 on: 6 Apr 2005, 11:02 pm »
glad you made it home from my place ok :mrgreen:
14hrs of sleep-how much coffee did it take for the trip home

Eduardo AAVM

Back from Montreal.
« Reply #4 on: 7 Apr 2005, 07:03 am »
Welcome back...

klaus@odyssey

Back from Montreal.
« Reply #5 on: 12 Apr 2005, 09:43 am »
Thanks guys,

Well,  Montreal  was pretty bad this year around.  The amount of exhibitors was down,  traffic was way down as was business when compared to the last several years.  Looks as if Canada right now is part of the same audio / video  downward trend as here in the US.  Oh well,  roller coaster rides.  Seen it all in my 18 years in the industry.

Anyway,  what I did see is the unbelievable hooray into the digital amp section.  Look slike Joe and Shmoe and everybody else has some sort of ICE  or Tripath powered amps, you know,  the one you can build for $ 50.  ,  and of course,  every one is so different and better and more unique than the next one.  Cool,  if you could only find some that don't clear the damn harmonics too much.  AAAArgh.  That brings me to my digital amp,  which,  of course,  is vastly different and much better than all the other digital amps.    Really,  I kid you not !

What else,  yes,  as always tons and tons of new speaker designs,  that,  of course are so vastly different and so much better than the next one.  And of course,  the downward spiral into more expensive designs being the average,  aaaaaaaargh.

Man,  sometimes I have to take a step back,  take some very deep breaths,  and just take this,  my,  our industry for what it is:  a bunch of know-it-all egomaniacs  that have an answer for everything and everyone,  depending on ego-things and price points.  And of course,  some of us simply have different and better products than others and don't have to play that BS  game !!!!!  You figure it out,


Klaus

John151

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Back from Montreal.
« Reply #6 on: 12 Apr 2005, 01:17 pm »
Quote from: klaus@odyssey
Thanks guys,

Well,  Montreal  was pretty bad this year around.  The amount of exhibitors was down,  traffic was way down as was business when compared to the last several years.  Looks as if Canada right now is part of the same audio / video  downward trend as here in the US.  Oh well,  roller coaster rides.  Seen it all in my 18 years in the industry.

Anyway,  what I did see is the unbelievable hooray into the digital amp section.  Look slike Joe and Shmoe and everybody else has some sort of ICE  or  ...


Klaus - If you want to appeal to a broader audience, simply add some blinking lights and an array of useless controls to the front of the Stratos.   Oh, and triple the price.  Just don't take away the current models (and prices) though. :mrgreen:

MarcD in NYC

Back from Montreal.
« Reply #7 on: 12 Apr 2005, 01:49 pm »
Quote
Man, sometimes I have to take a step back, take some very deep breaths, and just take this, my, our industry for what it is: a bunch of know-it-all egomaniacs that have an answer for everything and everyone, depending on ego-things and price points. And of course, some of us simply have different and better products than others and don't have to play that BS game !!!!! You figure it out,


I have found that your observations are true in most industries and professions.  Stepping back is critical to sanity,  it is important to remember that at the end of the day you can take pride in your own honesty & hardwork, and therefore feel confident and satisfied in your accomplishments.  Of course this is very difficult when you have everyone else in your industry telling you what they think is wrong with your product and right about theirs.

Eduardo AAVM

Back from Montreal.
« Reply #8 on: 12 Apr 2005, 04:53 pm »
Quote from: klaus@odyssey
Thanks guys,

Man, sometimes I have to take a step back, take some very deep breaths, and just take this, my, our industry for what it is: a bunch of know-it-all egomaniacs that have an answer for everything and everyone, depending on ego-things and price points. And of course, some of us simply have different and better products than others and don't have to play that BS game !!!!! You figure it out,


Klaus


I stand up and applaud your comments, specially last paragraph that's the damn truth and that is something I really hate, the bunch of ego-maniacs.

lonewolfny42

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« Reply #9 on: 13 Apr 2005, 07:03 am »
Klaus:
    Quote
    Anyway, what I did see is the unbelievable hooray into the digital amp section. Look slike Joe and Shmoe and everybody else has some sort of ICE or Tripath powered amps, you know, the one you can build for $ 50. , and of course, every one is so different and better and more unique than the next one. Cool, if you could only find some that don't clear the damn harmonics too much. AAAArgh. That brings me to my digital amp, which, of course, is vastly different and much better than all the other digital amps. Really, I kid you not
    [/list:u]
      I remember hearing your digital amp at the HE 2004 show. Will you have it at this years show ? :) [/list:u]

    klaus@odyssey

    Back from Montreal.
    « Reply #10 on: 18 Apr 2005, 08:04 am »
    Well,  no.  This year I'm absolutely concentrating on the on-wall art speakers.  They're really,  really good,  and I just finished building a display wall for them today,  complete with fireplace and all !!!!
    Will be nice,  trust me.  So,  I have the on-wall arts  running with the Cyclops integrated,  and the SL   CD  player.  There will also be the on-wall all Scan - Speak  center art speaker,  which can also be hooked up from the Cyclops as well.  This center speaker is NOT  an in-wall,  so you don't have to worry about any construction,  and it can handle some amazing oooomph.  Actually,  it's a perfect solution for tons of systems out there,  and trust me,  you'll  make your other half very happy,   hint,  hint,  hint.


    As for the main system,  I'll have the Loreleis  running with Stratos regular monos and the Tempest,  front end with my home made SL  turntable,  SME iV  arm,  and vdHul  cart.   I'm promoting this system as well,  which with the speakers,  amps, Tempest R/C,  and all Groneberg Quattro Reference cables,  of course,  will be sold as a show special for   tatatata:  $ 5,500  total,  delivered.  (in reality a German $ 20,300.  system)

    As for the smaller systems,  we'll have a review of the Nightingale speakers coming up soon,  and in the next 3-4  months there will be a total of 3  freakingly  ridiculous,  out of the world  reviews on the complete $ 1,500.  system.  It will be easier to show the system,  and maybe even get a couple of them on the road here , after people are more aware of them,  and then they still won't believe me on the pricing as in the past,  hehehe.


    Late,

    Klaus

    Brian

    Back from Montreal.
    « Reply #11 on: 18 Apr 2005, 08:39 pm »
    Hi Klaus

    Can't wait to read the reviews. I hope you will have to cancel your summer holiday in order to keep up with the orders...  :mrgreen:

    Brian

    amartincool

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    « Reply #12 on: 19 Apr 2005, 11:17 am »
    Klaus

    If you need some help from Odyssey Spain my wife passed the exam for the arts 5 years degree, she really is an artist!

    So she could draw some pictorics spaninsh towns.

    Also I have seen a picture of a Speaker Sofa that should be a good idea

    Let us know how she must proceed :lol:

    amartincool

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    « Reply #13 on: 19 Apr 2005, 11:17 am »
    Klaus

    If you need some help from Odyssey Spain my wife passed the exam for the academics arts 5 years degree, she really is an artist!

    So she could draw some pictorics spanish towns.

    Also I have seen a picture of a Speaker Sofa that should be a good idea

    Let us know how she must proceed :lol:

    KarlDL

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    Back from Montreal.
    « Reply #14 on: 29 Apr 2005, 03:44 am »
    Klaus,

    Too bad I can't arrange a compatible biz trip to NY (just returned from LA) this weekend.

    The wall-speaks are really fascinating.  Spouse has strongly resisted HT, tho she's the movie-fanatic of the house.  But she's also a (3D clay, "after hours") artist, so the concept seems to offer an entree ....

    Hmmm - do we see Khartagos for the center, RL & RR, subs, and the art-speakers coming this way over the summer?

    What's the practicality of wrapping custom canvas?  This could present an opportunity to use local (or family) artists to create a truly one-of-a-kind set of wall accents.  Yeah, there are acoustical issues, to be sure, in canvas preparation.  But perhaps some strict guidelines for media & physical form could make such an approach work.  We have friends whose 2-D art we appreciate greatly and who would be glad to create custom canvas for nominal compensation, given some guidelines.

    Am I way out in left field or onto something?

    Eduardo AAVM

    Re: .
    « Reply #15 on: 29 Apr 2005, 03:52 am »
    Quote from: amartincool
    Klaus

    If you need some help from Odyssey Spain my wife passed the exam for the academics arts 5 years degree, she really is an artist!

    So she could draw some pictorics spanish towns.

    Also I have seen a picture of a Speaker Sofa that should be a good idea

    Let us know how she must proceed :lol:



    I think it could be a GREAT (that's my opinion only) if all of us involved in Odyssey could get a "national" customization so we can sell it to our own countrymen but also send and sel it to other Odssey partners/customers, so we could have the "mexican prehispanic syle 5" ready t ship it to say something, to Brian in Denmark and Brian from Denmark send the "Viking motif" to Moyses in Brasil who could ship an artwork "Ipanema Girls" to Klaus and from Klaus to, to, to... wel to Marbles that's it... hehehe, who else...

    What do you think ?

    Klaus is there a specification we can base on our search for national motifs themes ?


    Regards

    klaus@odyssey

    Back from Montreal.
    « Reply #16 on: 5 May 2005, 11:43 pm »
    OK,  go back and see my thougts about Montreal.  Now take NY  and multiply my sentiments by 5 !!!!!

    Man oh man,  this show sucked the really big one.  

    - yes,  our room was simply superb.  The main system with the monos and the Loreleis settled in by Friday,  and sounded awesome.  Had to control the volume there a bit,  of course,  since we actually chopped off a good deal of the already small room,  and listened more in a nearfield application,  but man,  it was good.

    - the pictures.  What can I say ?   hehehe

    - the show quality and the quality / number of exhibits.  Way,  way down from past years,  and easily one of the worst shows there ever was in terms of number of products displayed (only 2 floors for the high end,  plus of course the bottom floor big rooms,  where $ is to be made with rooms up to $ 60,000  for the show )  What I don't get is the fact that these are the same environs year after year,  and the sq  just falls off.  That's why you have Bobby at Merlin,  for example,  whose room is awesome,  and he just repeats the same year after year,  same room,  same components,  same room treatments.   No surprises there and it just works.

    -  My theory is (and keep in mind that I'm doing this for 18 years now, and that I'm pretty arrogant at this point in regards to my experience and my ears,  and setup and tweaking abilities)  that regardless of good or bad electronics or room acoustics,  most people at these shows simply don't have a clue as to how the system sounds best.  It's way too  easy to cross sonic problems off as a room problem,  boominess,  or too much echo.  No.,  because all you have to do is adjust setup and volume of the music played.    That is considering that the components are any good.  If they're not,  then all bets are off anyway.

    -  With so many rooms sounding so bad on most materials,  let's go a step further.  I won't name any names whatsoever,  period.  Don't want to get into a pssng contest here with others,  BUT  if there are designers and manufacturer that don't get the setup under control,  then I would have a serious questionmark about their tuning abilities as well.  Tit for tat.

    -  traffic:   way,  way down from past shows.  Same happened in Montreal.  The interest in the shows,  displays,  our hobby in general seems to be going backwards.  Probably just a fact that there are too many of them.  Paople are simply overloaded.  In addition,  I don't think that having the same show at the same venue each year is helping to expand the interest.  People need a break,  and because of Montreal / NYC  for the past years,  you can see the results.  Personally,  I'd love them to go between east - west  every year,  but organizers made it clear to me that SF  won't happen again because of last year's disaster with the San Francis.  So,.  it'll be NYC at the Hilton  every year now,  and I can see attendance and interest going down next year even more.

    -  As for Montreal,  they're pretty set with their location,  and actually,  it's a good one.  Access,  size,  etc.  is good,  and in all regards,  it's a better show than NYC,  in my opinion.  Ifg you have a chance to go there,  and have time for only one show,  that's the one to go to.   Besides,  a weekend in Montreal is only about 30 % of $   of that in NYC !!!!!
    As for the NYC show,  I don't like the Hilton location.  It's a pain to get stuff into the city,  and just the parking was $ 50./  night !!!
    The best solution for us manufacturer would be a show in a nice hotel big enough in either Jersey or Long Island.  Would be easier on us,  and has to be less expensive.  I'm sure that the hardcore audio / videophiles would still attend,  but you'd also see some fresh and new paople there because of proximity and interest,  if marketing is done right.  

    - business:  man,  this show must have been the lowpoint of this short millenium.  I have rarely seen this many long faces of exhibitors after the show.  Probably talked with over a dozen - 15  others,  and they're all rethinking last year,.  because of the poor sales at this show.
    As for me,  Montreal was below par,  and this show was even worse.  However,  I know that there will be tons of sales coming after the show becauise of the pictures.  Nevertheless,  I honestly think that only about 10 %  of all will recover the investmnet of attending the show,  and let's face it,  it's expensive.  The NY  show cost me in the neighborhood of $ 8,000  once it's said and done !!!!    2 more thoughts here on this subject:  1.  I have no idea as to how the big rooms with teh ultra expensive $  gear did.  Figuring that there are so many super expensive companies vying for the same few customers,  some of them must have done the jackpot thingy  if there were some sales.  2.  I have also heard a manufacturer being overjoyed,  and how he made out like a robber.  Not buying it,  especially knowing their products.   Putting on a "man we did great" kind of face and put on a spin to look good might save your face a bit,  but you still have to pay the bills and you still spin bs.

    -  customers / business.  Well,  obviously,  there is much, much less impulse buying these days.  Big difference from past years,  and one has to ask as to why ?   Higher oil prices alone is too easy,  as is the question of economy problems.  I'm sure that there are other reasons for it,  and you have to be pretty brave to tackle this issue and come to an honest bigger picture in your mind if your livelihood is in this industry.


    My 02 cents and my conclusion on all of this above is simply in the problem of what this industry wants and how it projects itself.  The jerk-off of swansong,  ultra expensive  products chasing the elusive customer is still there and growing.  It is amazing to see how the regular,  average customer is being pushed aside.  I mean,  how many real world systems for under $ 2,000 where at the show ? Man,  take even $ 5,000,  which for most attendants is just a dream !  Is it any wonder that regular  brands like Sony etc.  sell their $ 2,000  systems all day long ?  No,  because there is still the snobbish attitude towards the mass market in the high end manufacturing basis.  Everybody wants to make a buck off of it,  of course,  but nobody wants to get into the trenches and really serve the regular customer right.  I don't mean to have Chinese made big but inexpensive gear or cheap to make digital amps that are being sold cheap enough for customers,  but still have a 500 %  profit margins.  All of this is niche dealings.  I mean true affordable,  honest, and real life applicable systems.  Very,  very few out there,  and that's why you see less and less people coming.  It's great for me to go to a car show and look at Lambos every year,  but at some point it kind of bummes me out and pisses me of that I'll never be able to afford them.  Then ultimately,  this feeling changes into one of being indifferent,  and voila,  that's what happens right now.
    Also, who in their right mind will shell out $ 20 K  for a speaker that you hear under show conditions instead of going to one of the dealers etc.  and being pampered there for that kind of sale ?  Just don't get it.

    So,  with all of these negative assessments, ( and believe me,  they are as honest as they can be.  I have done over 60 major shows. and about over 150  all in all with seminars,  etc.  over the past 18 years !!!)  it's still a far cry from the really bad years in the early 90's.  I'm just having problems with this industry being unable to do the right things and seeing the big pictures.  Not as to where trends and technology goes,  but looking at the average guy in an honest way.  that's why I do internet and factory diect,  and that's why there are so many new guys doing the same.  It's a much,  much better way IMO,  and more people oriented even without the eye to eye contact.

    Lastly, yes,  the show sucked overall,  and yes,  we managed to have a very decent one after all,  but one of the biggest impressions that I was left with is teh sheer amount and vocal,  active showgoers  that wore an "AudioCircle"  badge.  Right on,  and it made me proud.

    Late,

    Klaus

    Bob A (SD)

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    Back from Montreal.
    « Reply #17 on: 8 May 2005, 01:19 am »
    Klaus,

      You make some great points that reflect what a lot of us think.  More to the point the industry's climate makes you more of the "odd man out" which, from my knothole, is a great thing.   I couldn't be happier having found you and Odyssey Audio.  

      As for shows, I unfortunately had to miss seeing you when last in Denver.  And being in the boonies here (5.5 hours from Denver) I haven't been to a show in over 15 years.  That was in California before I moved here :)  

      I wonder if sales have been affected by we baby boomers having settled in with systems we intend to retire with, and the youngsters not understanding or appreciating the huge differences between their iPods and computers playing compressed crap and what they could be listening to from a modest "real" system.  

      As always my best to you and your family!

    --Bob