Newbie scores JVC F10...and, WOW!

Bobcat · « **on:** 5 Apr 2005, 03:19 pm »

Chairguy and others are just dead on right about the little JVC F10! I am thrilled to obtain such a great little music box for only $229 delivered from J&R.

And.....I am not even concerned whether or not the new JVC offerings may offer even more value. Why? Because I am having so much fun by being blown away by the dynamics, clarity, tone and vivid "realness" that the F10 provides. I am going through all my CD's to hear a new richness to the sound that was NEVER recreated by any of my previous audio gear.

At first blush, I was skeptical that such an economy piece would hold up to the litany of my Denon 3805, Antique Sound Labs 1003, Jolida 1500rc, Jolida 302a, Audio Refinement Alpha Complete, Zen 84C, Van Alstine, Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, et al. Speakers have included B&W, Magnepan, Infinity, Dyna, KEF, homebuilt et al. So as you can see, I do have some frame of reference.

The F10 sounded GREAT right out of the box! I could easily have dumped all my current audio gear in its favor. I now have about 30 hours on the F10. I have noticed very little change from inception so far. If this puppy gets any better with a 300 hour break-in ala Chairguy, I will be in HEAVEN!

I currently am not using any power conditioning with the F10. I think we have pretty decent clean power here in SW Wisconsin. However, I sure could use some help with your opinions on this subject. It seems there are as many users complaining about the sound being degraded as there are adherents who proclaim great improvements with the use of power conditioning. I am considering PS Audio Ultimate Outlet, BPT CPC, Powervar, and maybe Monster 2500/3600. I am running on a pretty low budget. Any recommendations?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Apr 2005, 04:28 pm »

Hey Bobcat,

I'm so glad for you...your time in audio hell was too, too long!

In addition to the noted power conditioners, add the Chang Lightspeed's to your possibility list. It's good value, particularly used.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Apr 2005, 04:34 pm »

Forgot to mention, 300 hours improves it just a touch...but not as much as the previous generation ES1sl did.

kck · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Apr 2005, 07:28 pm »

Does anyone here have experience using the Blue Circle MR1200? There are a few users on the Asylum but they are very strong in its support.

kck · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Apr 2005, 07:44 pm »

Sorry, I meant to ask along with the Blue Circle question, what might be a dumb one... how does one know whether a conditioner will improve one's individual situation? I have not noticed anything bad per se but you know how the audiophile mind works... if it ain't broke, fix it anyway!

Re RFI etc I am in a valley and cellphone/radio reception here is poor to begin with, so maybe that is my silver lining as far as audio is concerned.

timbley · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Apr 2005, 10:17 pm »

You guys are making me unstable with all this euphoria over the F10. I"m running a Panasonic SA-XR50, and since I started using a Behringer DCX digital crossover, I've been forced to go in through it's analog 5.1 inputs, which is a pity with the Panny.

Should I get an F10? Are the surround amps and analog inputs as good as the front channels? The surround amps are going to be running my tweeters if I do this.

What about the Teac surround receiver with it's Tripath chips? It's more expensive. Has anybody compared it to the JVC?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Apr 2005, 12:37 am »

kck
Balanced conditioning is the best that I know of....noise and hash exist in your lines, and in your music, to an extent that you might not be aware of until you rid yourself of it. That said, it's a fairly expensive trial..if it makes you feel any better going that route I have owned PS Audio Ultimate Outlet, Power Plant and Monster Cable Powerbars...and none of them did what the BPT does as positively. Don't know the Blue Circle products mentioned...but I know they have a couple models quite attractively prices.

timbley
At $229.00 delivered, it's near painless to try. Your Panny must be able to fetch near $100 in good condition on ebay/Audiogon if you prefer the JVC.

timbley · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Apr 2005, 02:20 am »

The local video store had one on close out for 159.00, last one in the store. I'm listening right now. It seems richer, warmer than the Panasonic. I played some pink noise and looked at the RTA to see if I could identify something different. The RTA response looks nice and flat, so the EQ settings that work for the Panasonic yield the same flat room response with this amp. But something is different.

Yes, this is a nice sounding amp! The sound is still clear and detailed like the Panasonic. It has more weight to it. The Panasonic had a light, almost thinness to it that is delightful in it's own way. I could see how someone might call the sound of the JVC colored. I'm not sure that's the case, since after growing acustomed to a leaner sound, a richer sound will probably always sound like something extra has been added in. This amp has more mood. With the classical I'm listening to now, it reminds me of listening to my Dad's hifi when I was a kid, not so much that it sounds the same, but that it feels the same, creates the same atmosphere in the room. I think that's a good thing.

timbley · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Apr 2005, 04:42 am »

This JVC can dig way deeper in the bass. I couldn't figure out what I was hearing at first. There was this super low rumble, like a heavy truck was going by outside. it was my speakers!

Thanks for being the relentless JVC evangelist, TheChairGuy. Bobcat, I think we're very fortunate people, us F10 owners.

Bobcat · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Apr 2005, 04:53 pm »

Chairguy is the bomb! If anything, he has been careful not to overstate the attributes of the great little F10! Chairguy has been of enormous help to me in this quest, and you can rely on his opinions as being objective.

Many thanks, John!!!

I am now considering buying the Blue Circle BC606 @ $260 delivered for AC line filtering. How do you philes feel about this piece being adequate for improving the sonics on the F10? I realize the BC606 does not incorporate advanced features like balanced power conditioning, but it doesn't cost $1500, either. I'm looking for the most bang for the buck and the $260 pretty much tops out my budget. The BC606 claims no current limiting...a good thing. I believe many dissatisfied conditioner users are the result of using conditioners that do limit the amount of current coming out of the wall socket. So...it does no good to use your water hose sized AC power cord under these circumstances. Opinions, please!

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Apr 2005, 05:28 pm »

I have been increasingly vocal about the merits of this little fella' as others found the same as me in time...I truly did not trust my ears, initially.

At $250 or so, the PS Audio Ultimate Outlet also does not limit current. It only has two ports, however, necessitating a good extension if you need 2+ outlets. But, it's small, inexpensive, works well, no current limiting and I like that it has a custom made Power Port built in to it.

You might want to read about the Chang's also...I believe thay make a big deal about them not current limiting either.

That said, balanced power is the best I know of. I think the cheapest (new) balanced conditioners out there are Blue Circle 800 model (PhilNYC here on AC sells them discounted....not sure if he is area restricted on Blue Circle):

http://www.sonicspirits.com/products.htm

and Wayne1 / Bolder Cables sells an Equi=tech model for about the same money here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=17298

Both nice fella's they be - 'pimping' for both makes me still keeps my objectivity, no?

Tweaker · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Apr 2005, 10:53 pm »

I've been using Brickwall filters/suppresors for years. Absolutely no negative effect on the sound in any way. Quite the contrast, the filtering is very good and made a significant (positive) contribution to the overall sound of my system.

http://www2.catalognavigator.com/brickwall/item/audio-surge-protectors/two-outlet-high-current-audio-surge-protectors/pw2raud?&plpver=10&origin=&assetid=spec&forward=1&backtoname=

Al Garay · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Apr 2005, 11:04 pm »

Can the F10 be used to provide 6 channels to a digital crossover such as a DEQX? It's like using the DEQX as preamp input.

I'm also a happy Brickwall owner. I have the 8 plug audio version.

thanks,

Al

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Apr 2005, 01:59 am »

Quote from: Al Garay

Can the F10 be used to provide 6 channels to a digital crossover such as a DEQX? It's like using the DEQX as preamp input.

I'm also a happy Brickwall owner. I have the 8 plug audio version.

thanks,

Al

Al,

If the DEQX has 6 pair of rca outputs (or XLR as most Pro Audio stuff has it...just use an rca-to-xlr adaptor) then you can run into 6 analog discrete channels (IC's) on the JVC and on out to your speaker level outputs. At least, if I understand what the unit does...I've never studied it, but heard of it.

Be forewarned, the JVC has only cheesy spring clip terminals that'll just fit 14.5 ga wire and thinner only (bare).

As nothing is processed using the discrete analog inputs (set to DVD Multi), you'd adjust your channel levels on the DEQX (as I assume you do now anyhow) a la preamp-like. You'd just have to toggle the JVC volume in conjunction with the DEQX channel levels, I guess

Neat idea on the Brickwall...and right in bobcat's price range, too (for the two outlet version linked, at least)

Al Garay · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Apr 2005, 03:46 am »

I bought my BrickWall from this vendor and saved a few dollors. The product shipped directly from the manufacturer.
http://www.sellcom.com/brickwall.html#Order

I noticed a clear improvement in audio and video whereas I did not notice any improvement after trying a Panamax and Monster units.

My DEQX has standard RCA outputs as well as digital outputs. It would be nice to use the 6-RCA outputs to plug into the 6 surround inputs on the JVC RX-F10, setting each channel to large. Don't know if its feasible. I have not found a local vendor who sells it by itself. GoodGuys sells it as part of a HT system.... This is supposed to be a short term fix while I build a 6 channel amplifier.

thanks,

Al

timbley · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Apr 2005, 06:55 am »

Unfortunately, only 5 of the 6 amplifier channels are accessible. The 6th is for the surround back, which is derived from surround sources. There's no line in for it. Bummer.

The good news is that when you set the receiver to accept the 5.1 analog inputs (DVD Multi), all the receiver's internal processers are bypassed, so you don't have to worry about setting the speakers to large. You can hear a relay click inside the receiver when you go to DVD Multi. It seems to me that even for 2 channel analog listening, you should be using the DVD Multi input for maximum fidelity from analog sources.

Since you've got a DEQX, (you lucky dog), you should just go ahead and get two JVC F10s and run 3 channels on each. The remote control will keep the volume levels in synch for you.