[MarcD in NYC]

Could any of the fans, experts, and otherwise give any incite into the potential of using a non-oversampling DAC (Scott Nixon or otherwise) with satellite radio (XM or Sirius).  Would it be any different than your average off the shelf consumer Cd player used as a transport?

[kendrid]

XM and Sirius both overcompress their music.  It sounds nothing like CD.

I doubt that an expensive outboard DAC would do much to make it sound better.  A lot of the data was stripped out of the music before they send it.

[JoshK]

Question:  My understanding is that there are really good internet radio stations out there now.  I haven't ever looked into them and know nothing about it but for some who have, are they compressed to hell as well?  

They are free right?  Then why would someone purchase XM or Sirius if they can get Internet radio for free?  I purchased a squeezebox which allows you to play internet radio as well as your library of stored music and outputs an SP/DIF signal that you could potential use with such a Non-OS Dac.

[Carlman]

There's a lot of music sources... Nothing's 'free'.  You either pay for the service and get little or no commercials... or get commercials and offers and it's no charge to you other than having to listen to adverts.

Beyond that, there's lot of radio on the internet but there's different varieties... for instance, you can get a compressed stream of the same broadcast over the radio.. just go to your local radio stations website.. most major cities do this.

Then there's things like 'Launchcast' which is also a streamed broadcast by you pay $3/month for it and there are very few promotions, 99% music... and you get to customize your station to play only music you like.  (this takes time because you have to 'teach' the software to pick your music as you listen)

XM and Sirius have there services available online as well.

As far as technology goes, all I've been talking about uses similar technology, streaming data.  Even compressed it uses a good bit of bandwidth.  It's compressed so it doesn't use all of the available bandwidth.  (Think of bandwidth as data going through a pipe (network connection)... the pipe is only so big.)

The entire time you're listening, you're receiving the music file.  You never download it, though.. it just streams.  So, the smaller the file, the easier it is to transmit.

Sirius, XM, local radio, Launchcast, all do this... I have Sirius and notice that some stations get more bandwidth than others... so the quality is much better.  They can alter this at any time.  Different companies choose different levels of file size/compression to transmit their broadcast.

I would imagine the cheaper it is, the smaller the file and the higher the ad content.  You gotta pay to play.

Anyway, if there's more advanced stuff than what I've mentioned here, please feel free to enlighten me/us.  I have an audio PC and love to have the streaming stuff play while I'm doing housework.  Launchcast in particular is awesome.  

-C

[PhilNYC]

They are free right?  Then why would someone purchase XM or Sirius if they can get Internet radio for free? .

I think XM and Sirius are making most headway in the car stereo market...

[doug s.]

Could any of the fans, experts, and otherwise give any incite into the potential of using a non-oversampling DAC (Scott Nixon or otherwise) with satellite radio (XM or Sirius).  Would it be any different than your average off the shelf consumer Cd player used as a transport?

everyone i've ever heard of who's tried a dac w/satellite radio has found it to bring nothing positive to the party.  (but this is only a small handful of people.)  

personally, i cannot listen to sirius, even as background music, for much more than a half hour - it gives me a headache.  it is impossible to actually sit & listen to it, for even five minutes.

doug s.

[fajimr]

personally, i cannot listen to sirius, even as background music, for much more than a half hour - it gives me a headache.  it is impossible to actually sit & listen to it, for even five minutes.

True it is certainly not the best in sound reproduction, but you can't  beat sirius for road trips. hours straight without changing stations is great!!!  Try driving across Nevada without it  

[bikeman]

"There's a lot of music sources... Nothing's 'free'. "

Lots free.  A few of my favorites but there are many more.

http://www.radioparadise.com/

http://radiofreephoenix.com/radiofreephoenix001.htm

http://www.blueears.com/main.htm

David

[doug s.]

personally, i cannot listen to sirius, even as background music, for much more than a half hour - it gives me a headache.  it is impossible to actually sit & listen to it, for even five minutes.

True it is certainly not the best in sound reproduction, but you can't  beat sirius for road trips. hours straight without changing stations is great!!!  Try driving across Nevada without it  

audio in the car is a whole different thing.  mebbe no headaches, w/the louder ambient noise levels.  but, personally, i rarely turn on the radio when driving.  i prefer to listen to the engine, & to *drive*.     my present daily driver doesn't even *have* a radio...

doug s.

[panomaniac]

I listen to Launchcast every night, all night at work. Loud, too.  Not what you would call true Hi-Fi, but not too bad.  Bit rates are fairly low, around 56K, (Windows Media) and level matched, of course. MusicMatch radio sounds better.

My work system was purpose built for Internet radio and streaming music services.  I have the pay versions of the services, so a lot of choice and no commercials.  There are a lot of old favorites there, plus new music discoveries every night. Sometimes I stream my local 100Watt FM station that just won't come thru on the tuner.

The ultimate in recorded music?  No.  Does it making working nights a lot more fun? Yes.

[Bemopti123]

Josh, the most surprising thing that I got when I received my MacMini about 1 week ago was that the Itunes software was uploaded with many, I mean, TONS of streaming links all categorized into type of music etc...  All free, and the best of it was that it shows the bitrate....so as that you can choose the one with the highest fidelity.  No need to pay for zippo.  With broadband and something like the Airport...wireless router there is a possibility of getting an external DAC that will play music without problems.  

As far as LaunchCast at 56K...that is bad.  

Try to download Itunes for PC to see whether it has all these channels that came tabbed with my Mac version.  

Amazing.

[panomaniac]

As far as LaunchCast at 56K...that is bad.

Yes, but most of the users don't complain.    On the Yahoo goup it's rare to see complaints about the quality.

To return to MarcD's question of an external DAC helping satellite radio, I don't know, haven't tried it.  BUT, what I do know is this:

With my system at work LaunchCast can sound pretty rough at times, it may have more to do with the ripping and encoding than anything else.  At first it seemed there wasn't much to be done with the sound quality, it was just always going to be annoying. How can you make 56K (or worse) streams listenable?  As we say in the music biz: "You can take a trud, polish it, put it in a tuxedo and shine a spot light on it, but its still a turd."  Doesn't leave much hope for satellite or internet radio quality.

However, after a few tweaks, things are sounding much better.  1st, roll of the highs a bit.  You have to give up some treble to take the edge off those phasey highs.  Next, a better sound card.  Given the low quality of the source, I didn't have much hope for better quailty with a better sound card.  But it did work!  Replacing the P.O.S. onboard card with just a cheap USB sound card helped a lot.  The sound is much smoother now, punchier, less fatiguing to listen too.

So, would say that a great DAC would help, no matter how bad the source. Of course there will be a point of diminishing returns, you could certainly run into a point where no matter how much money you throw at it, the signal just won't get better.

IMO, you may not be able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but you can make the ear smell a lot better.

[lcrim]

I have directv at home and I listen to the music channels, since I got a cheap DAC and been doing the D to A conversion there instad of onboard the HDTV receiver the quality has jumped exponentially.  The compression is not noticeable to my old ears-the spatial cues are there, it's a step behind good CD playback but a short one.
I've been thinking about adding a DAC to my other system to gain this quality there as well.  I listen to it a lot and can't count the times I've had to turn on the TV to make a note of what was playing.
Just another outlet for good tunes that many ignore.

[panomaniac]

since I got a cheap DAC <snip> the quality has jumped exponentially.

This is good to hear!  (Excuse the pun) There may be hope for streaming media yet.

[MarcD in NYC]

Thanks all, for your opinions & incite into this topic.  Here at my office we have been using XM for a couple months, and I enjoy the variety of music at my fingertips... our set up at the office is anything but Hi-fi.

I am trying to think of ways to integrate the diversity of music provided by XM or internet radios into my home system.  The best way would be to buy lots and lots of CD's, but we all know that the expense of that can add up quickly compared to the $12 per month for XM.

I have a Clari-T amp on Order from Vinnie... which got me thinking about the external DAC's... which parlayed into things I could use it with, other than my already lovely CDP.

The notion of Satelite Radio appears to be really catching on in the car market which makes me believe that the audience will continue to be there.  Maybe the quality will rise with increased membership, maybe it won't.  If an upgraded DAC can give the music a little depth, enough that listening isn't fatiguing... then it could open me up to alot of music that I would never here otherwise.

[maxwalrath]

I have directv at home and I listen to the music channels, since I got a cheap DAC and been doing the D to A conversion there instad of onboard the HDTV receiver the quality has jumped exponentially.  ....I listen to it a lot and can't count the times I've had to turn on the TV to make a note of what was playing. Just another outlet for good tunes that many ignore.

lcrim, do you watch regular direcTv programming like this too?

[lcrim]

maxwalrath:
Yes I do.  The music on the better produced shows can be stunning.