[subsonic1050]

Hey all, I've been very happy with my NX-Treme's and triple OB subs. However, for me, the weakness in the system is in the bass region. The OB subs are very clean, fast, and detailed - but they just don't "hit" like I hoped for. I've now been using the subs for around 6 months, and rather than getting used to them, I actually get more disappointed as time goes on.

Has anyone successfully integrated one or 2 more traditional subs with the OB subs? If so, how? I'm not just looking for deeper extension, I'm looking for more impact through the whole bass range.

[mlundy57]

One method is to run one or two sealed servo subs in the back of the room out of phase with the front subs

If you are using a home theater receiver or pre/pro you can connect the rear subs to the subwoofer output and configure them as LFE plus main then set the subwoofer crossover point high enough to cover the bass range you want

[russellberg]

I started out with the closed box sub kit from Danny.  Eventually I added an H frame open baffle sub to my X-SLS's.  Some people were skeptical about integrating the two but it has worked really well for me.  I have my H frame up front between my mains and the sealed sub near the back of the room off to the right of my seating position.  The open baffles are playing up to about 120 Hz and the sealed sub plays up to about 40-50 Hz.  The sealed sub really gives kick and pressurizes the room when I want it to and the open baffles give texture and subtle detail to the bass.  I really enjoy the combination.  When I am watching a movie where I know there is going to be some low end kick I turn the volume up on the sealed sub and it plays great.  I am waiting patiently for my NX-Otica's to arrive to kick it all up another notch!

[Vince in TX]

One method is to run one or two sealed servo subs in the back of the room out of phase with the front subs

If you are using a home theater receiver or pre/pro you can connect the rear subs to the subwoofer output and configure them as LFE plus main then set the subwoofer crossover point high enough to cover the bass range you want

This is what I'm doing (except instead of a sealed servo sub at the back, I'm using an SVS SB-2000 Pro), and it sounds amazing.   

[Early B.]

Hey all, I've been very happy with my NX-Treme's and triple OB subs. However, for me, the weakness in the system is in the bass region. The OB subs are very clean, fast, and detailed - but they just don't "hit" like I hoped for. I've now been using the subs for around 6 months, and rather than getting used to them, I actually get more disappointed as time goes on.

Has anyone successfully integrated one or 2 more traditional subs with the OB subs? If so, how? I'm not just looking for deeper extension, I'm looking for more impact through the whole bass range.

That's how OB subs sound. I agree with everyone's assessment about getting a sealed sub, but place it close to the seating position, if possible. That will give you all the punch you'll ever want. I'd recommend a sealed servo sub. You should be able to easily integrate it.

Just curious -- what kind of music do you listen to?   

[NoahH]

I am anxious about this thread as my mega-ob subs are nearing completion and I am hoping they can hit...

Subsonic - when you say they don't hit, do you mean you don't get the pressure wave?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Having listened to Danny's Triple towers, I can't imagine needing more bass.. they slam hard, especially on tracks like "It Doesn't Matter" by Allison Kraus.
Another bass-heavy track would be "Deeper" by Pete Belasco.

Only way I could see them "lacking" would be in a home-theater setup where ultra deep sub-20Hz rumble is common.

But I'm also curious if you're listening position is in a null...
How is your room set up and laid out? Any room treatment?
What are the settings on your amps?
Have you done any room measurements with REW to see if there's an integration or phase issue?
Does the bass change if you walk around the room?

[subsonic1050]

A couple people have suggested sealed servo subs - how much harder does a sealed 12" hit than the OB subs? I'm worried that won't be enough. I used to have (2) Paradigm 15" subs, and while they were a lot muddier, they honestly were more fun to listen to.

I listen to almost everything. The OB subs are great for Jazz, softer rock, etc. They are really lacking (for me) when it comes to rock, pop, or even the very occasional rap(ish) type song.

NoahH - I don't know how much to be concerned by my results. My room has always been weird. It has drywall, but just on the other side of the drywall on 3 sides is concrete. I've battled with room acoustics, but to answer Hobbs question - the room is extensively treated. There is a lot of bass trapping as well as additional wall and ceiling absorption panels and the entire front and back wall are quadratic diffusion. My frequency sweeps are very smooth - I'm getting bass - I just don't feel the impact of the bass. You don't get the rumble in your chest, the sensation of the bass.

Hobbs - As mentioned above the room is extensively treated. Frequency sweeps are smooth throughout the bass region (I've messed with every conceivable amp setting). The bass is actually very consistent throughout the room - no null at the listening position.

The tracks you chose are not indicative of the type of bass I'm talking about missing - particularly the Allison Kraus song. That kind of bass, which is supposed to be fast and tight sounds good. What it's missing is the real "hit" on stronger bass stuff - think more along the lines of James Blake "Limit to your Love" - or some Post Malone or something.

[Early B.]

I listen to almost everything. The OB subs are great for Jazz, softer rock, etc. They are really lacking (for me) when it comes to rock, pop, or even the very occasional rap(ish) type song.

Yeah, that's the issue. It's very rare, but when I listen to bass-heavy, old-school R&B, I gotta pump up the volume and change settings on my OB subs to get them to thump harder and they're still on the polite spectrum. Rock, pop, and rap have what I refer to as, "artificial bass" which is what you're probably seeking. Most pop and rap tracks use drum machines, so it's literally artificial. OB subs don't do artificial bass very well. A box sub (or two) will give you the sound and feeling you're seeking for these genres, but don't expect the boxes to perform anywhere near as good as your OB subs. That's the tradeoff.   

[corndog71]

I would recommend the sealed servo sub.  It’s a beast.

[Tyson]

I would recommend the sealed servo sub.  It’s a beast.

Listen to this man!! 

[subsonic1050]

I would recommend the sealed servo sub.  It’s a beast.

Oh really? I was worried that it wouldn't be enough given it's such a small cabinet and still just a 12" driver. Does it hit that much harder than the OB subs? With only 1 driver?

It looks like the difference between the servo sealed kit and the servo sealed kit plus is that the "plus" version uses the A370 amp while the standard uses the HX310 amp. Are there other differences? Other than a few additional features and the hi level inputs is there any downside to the HX310 for this application? It's significantly cheaper and also available right now.

If people seem to think this would add significant bass I might try one sub behind my listening position and see what that does for me.

[Tyson]

Oh really? I was worried that it wouldn't be enough given it's such a small cabinet and still just a 12" driver. Does it hit that much harder than the OB subs? With only 1 driver?

It looks like the difference between the servo sealed kit and the servo sealed kit plus is that the "plus" version uses the A370 amp while the standard uses the HX310 amp. Are there other differences? Other than a few additional features and the hi level inputs is there any downside to the HX310 for this application? It's significantly cheaper and also available right now.

If people seem to think this would add significant bass I might try one sub behind my listening position and see what that does for me.

That's a good plan.  I'd start with one, and if that's not enough just add another later on.

[Vince in TX]

...

If people seem to think this would add significant bass I might try one sub behind my listening position and see what that does for me.

From personal experience, I can tell you that the sealed 12" subs (SVS SB-2000 Pro) didn't fill the room like I had hoped, which is why I bit the bullet and built the Double Troubles (formerly Servo Sub 4).   But on the LFE channel with the servo subs, stereo music tracks were lacking.   That's when I took one of those sealed subs, put it at the back of the theater on the LFE channel, and went with the high-level inputs on the servo subs.   Combine the punch and rumble of LFE with the room-filling fast bass of the servo subs (music tracks in movies and shows like Book of Boba Fett are simply breathtaking), then go the extra step of putting the sound shakers in the seats so you can "feel" every bit of that LFE (like a Dolby Cinema experience), and it's low-frequency nirvana.

This was no bueno:   



This is nirvana:   

[zybar]

Great setup Vince!   

I have a pair of SVS PB-2000 Pro subs arriving tomorrow and I will be starting first with them.

Sometime in the next few months I will either get working or rebuild my pair of open baffle subs that utilize the parts that Danny sells. 

My hope is that sometime before the summer I have 4 subs going strong in my HT.   

George

[Vince in TX]

Great setup Vince!   

I have a pair of SVS PB-2000 Pro subs arriving tomorrow and I will be starting first with them.

Sometime in the next few months I will either get working or rebuild my pair of open baffle subs that utilize the parts that Danny sells. 

My hope is that sometime before the summer I have 4 subs going strong in my HT.   

George

The PBs definitely have more oomph since they're ported.   I have a single PB-2000 in my game room (what used to pass as the home theater), and it does a fairly decent job.   I replaced it at one point with the dual SB-2000s, and I still thought the single ported sub sounded better.   Of course, open baffle + sealed is definitely the cat's meow.   

Here's the "old" theater as it exists today.   PB-2000 in the right-hand corner.

EDIT:  Side note, before I get chastised for speaker placement here, it was a failed battle with the wife since she cared more about aesthetics than sound quality.   She calls this HER lounge now.    I'm just a guest in it.   

[mlundy57]

Oh really? I was worried that it wouldn't be enough given it's such a small cabinet and still just a 12" driver. Does it hit that much harder than the OB subs? With only 1 driver?

It looks like the difference between the servo sealed kit and the servo sealed kit plus is that the "plus" version uses the A370 amp while the standard uses the HX310 amp. Are there other differences? Other than a few additional features and the hi level inputs is there any downside to the HX310 for this application? It's significantly cheaper and also available right now.

If people seem to think this would add significant bass I might try one sub behind my listening position and see what that does for me.

Whether it's going to be enough or not is subjective. One sealed 12" servo sub is plenty for me. It can shake the couch down to 10Hz and rattle things on the walls. There is more than enough thump. The one in the living room system is combined with a pair of N3 TLs and is used with both music and movies. I prefer sealed subs vs ported. While ported subs have twice the output of sealed down to the port tuning frequency, sealed subs dig deeper and are smaller.

Not everybody feels the same way. In the Rythmik forum on AVS, the home theater bass heads consider my setup anemic and insist you have to have at least to Rythmik dual 15" ported subs if you are serious about bass.

My guess is your preferences are somewhere in between. So go with Tyson's advice and start with one sealed servo sub. If that's not enough, add a second.

While the HX300 amp will save you a little money, it is limited in connectivity options and severely limited in integration adjustments compared to the A370 amps.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Yeah, based on your responses the hybrid solutions of fast OB subs with sealed near your position will be the best way to go.
The OB subs are designed to focus on speed/velocity over pressure.

Sealed subs will give you the pressure & thump you're looking for, while still maintaining the speed and texture thanks to the servo controls. Since they're closer to you, it should be easier to make them hit the way you want.