[harley1952]

Saw a set up where the guy had mbl omnis with 70% of the front wall having  sound treatments!
Totally bizarre.

[dwmaggie]

How did they sound?

[RDavidson]

Saw a set up where the guy had mbl omnis with 70% of the front wall having  sound treatments!
Totally bizarre.

Why is that bizarre? Sound treatments may be necessary if the guy wasn't able to get the speakers out into the room far enough. The speakers are omnidirectional, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't control reflections. In fact, placement and controlling reflections is probably even more critical here than with any other type of speaker.

[Danny Richie]

Why is that bizarre? Sound treatments may be necessary if the guy wasn't able to get the speakers out into the room far enough. The speakers are omnidirectional, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't control reflections. In fact, placement and controlling reflections is probably even more critical here than with any other type of speaker.

That is correct.

[mick wolfe]

Saw a set up where the guy had mbl omnis with 70% of the front wall having  sound treatments!
Totally bizarre.

You'd probably find my two listening rooms totally bizarre as well 

[mlundy57]

Here's the front wall of my OB setup. Bass traps in the corners and diffusion in the center



It sounded like the midrange drivers were at the back of a cave before the room treatments.

Some rooms need more, some less. No two rooms are the same. Which is a PITA when you move your system to a different room in the house 

[opnly bafld]

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[opnly bafld]

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[JakeJ]

You'd probably find my two listening rooms totally bizarre as well 

How dare you make a statement like that without providing pictures.  Harumph! 

(JK)

[harley1952]

How foolish I am for finding that guys set up to be bizarre. Sarcasm included. I’ve not seen any set up like that with omni’s. I have to question if the guy understands how omnis work.
 
Danny ya know I have the greatest respect for you and have always agreed with you on topic of speakers, but not this time. I was hoping you’d chime in on this though.


The sound treatments in that set up make no sense. The treatments defeat part of the reflection points. The front wall. All the calculations/measurements were taken into account for the omni design to use the walls/reflections to simulate the the live sound. I totally understand treatments for dynamic speakers. I love my apogee stages for their gorgeous midrange and tight, tight mid bass. But, they sure don’t sound like live music like my omni’s do.

Now be gentle as I know you can. 

[VinceT]

Lots of factors to consider and kind of difficult to gauge much without more information

Treatments... Absorption or diffraction? Is the room lively or dry? Speaker positioning in the room? Room dimensions? Did he take any measurements of the room?

Do you have any pics of the room by chance?

I am at the room treatment stage of my journey as well, it is a very interesting a debated topic. 

[NXSTUDIO-DRUMMER]

Perhaps the man with this set up likes the sound configuration this way. And that's ok, if it meets his needs right? Even though many of us may agree or disagree.

[Early B.]

How foolish I am for finding that guys set up to be bizarre. Sarcasm included. I’ve not seen any set up like that with omni’s. I have to question if the guy understands how omnis work.

You treat the room, not the speakers.

[dB Cooper]

How foolish I am for finding that guys set up to be bizarre. Sarcasm included. I’ve not seen any set up like that with omni’s. I have to question if the guy understands how omnis work.
 
Danny ya know I have the greatest respect for you and have always agreed with you on topic of speakers, but not this time. I was hoping you’d chime in on this though.


The sound treatments in that set up make no sense. The treatments defeat part of the reflection points. The front wall. All the calculations/measurements were taken into account for the omni design to use the walls/reflections to simulate the the live sound. I totally understand treatments for dynamic speakers. I love my apogee stages for their gorgeous midrange and tight, tight mid bass. But, they sure don’t sound like live music like my omni’s do.

Now be gentle as I know you can. 

Morrison Audio, makers of 'point-source omni' speakers, agrees with you and says that the need for lots of 'treatments' is created by uneven room loading that occurs with traditional forward radiating monopoles. you might want to browse his website and blog articles (Look for 'Rooms and speakers' tab on his landing page). https://www.morrisonaudio.com

My old Allisons were 'omnidirectional in the forward hemisphere' and, placed close to the front wall as recommended, presented the same very neutral signature everywhere in the room, without treatments. 'Pinpoint imaging' is at least partially a remnant of the 'pingpong stereo' era IMHO. Maybe for a closely miked studio recording of a small number of players; for an orchestra or other large ensemble in a large hall, not so much. The reflections  from off-axis have a dramatically different balance than on-axis and therein lies the problem, according to Morrison.
Of course every design approach has its pros and cons and evey such website will highlight the 'pros' of theirs. But I did like knowing that someone listening to my Allisons with me heard basically the same thing I heard; the room was the 'sweet spot'.

[DannyBadorine]

I may be wrong here as I'm no expert in this, but using room treatment behind OB speakers make sense because it isn't as much about the reflections off of the walls as it is how the OB speakers interact with the air in the room.  OB speakers are loading the room by moving the air around without the interaction of a box. The drivers aren't necessarily shooting sound off of the wall behind them as much as they are moving the air back and forth which loads the room and interacts with your ear drum in a different way.  I think it is more drastic with lower frequencies since they are larger waves, but even high frequencies are not beamed through the air at you.  Rather, the air is moving back and forth at those frequencies and that's what you hear.  So treating the reflections is still important.  I think this is also why you want a clean room, but not too dead.  A room that is treated too much doesn't have enough air movement.  This is why a combination of absorption and diffusion is useful.  But again, I'm not an expert on this.

[Early B.]

Morrison Audio, makers of 'point-source omni' speakers, agrees with you and says that the need for lots of 'treatments' is created by uneven room loading that occurs with traditional forward radiating monopoles. you might want to browse his website and blog articles (Look for 'Rooms and speakers' tab on his landing page). https://www.morrisonaudio.com

Morrison isn't the only speaker manufacturer to claim their speakers don't need room treatment. It's actually a great marketing pitch.

[grsimmon]

I own Morrisons,  and can assure you it's not a marketing pitch.   Linkwitz of Linkwitz Labs says (said) the exact same thing.   IMHO,  Morrison and Linkwitz are 2 of the smartest speaker designers,  ever.  When they make such statements re:  room treatment in relation to their particular designs,   it's because it's true for their design goals,  not marketing.   

[Danny Richie]

I've designed and set up ommi speakers and open baffle speakers. Those two are very similar in how you treat the room.

With a typical boxed speaker the wavelengths that become omni and reflect off of the front wall are limited to wavelengths below 1kHz.

With an open baffle or omni design the front wall reflections can involve a full bandwidth signal sometimes. So typically a little more attention to the wall reflections are necessary.

What you absolutely don't want is a flat wall that will cause a direct reflection. Depending on the distance from the wall the reflection can arrive to the listener both in phase in some frequency ranges and out of phase at other frequency ranges. This causes peaks where in phase and dips where out of phase. So it is important to treat the whole front area to absorb some of those longer wavelengths and diffuse some of the shorter ones to even out the reflections and defuse them in order to maintain an even room response.

So while the room is very much a part of the system the treatment in the room has to be such that you hear the musician, singer, etc, performing in the room that the recording was taken in and not performing in your room. 

[Tyson]

I own Morrisons,  and can assure you it's not a marketing pitch.   Linkwitz of Linkwitz Labs says (said) the exact same thing.   IMHO,  Morrison and Linkwitz are 2 of the smartest speaker designers,  ever.  When they make such statements re:  room treatment in relation to their particular designs,   it's because it's true for their design goals,  not marketing.   

I've heard all of the Linkwitz speakers and they just didn't sound that good.  Which was bewildering for me at the time (each time I heard his speakers), as based on the engineering that went in to them, they should have sounded fabulous.  Seriously, I was expecting world class sound.  And what I heard was merely 'OK' sound.  Which I didn't understand at the time but I think I do now. 

Anyway, back on topic - people can be wrong.  Even very smart people.  Even about things that they should know very well (like their own products).  Yes, smart designers can be wrong even about their own products.  So, just because someone says something like "my speakers don't require room treatments", you should NOT take them at their word. Best thing to do is to try it both ways in your own room.  That will give you clear, definitive evidence of whether or not room treatments help in your setup, or not. 

Now, if the WAF won't allow you to put up room treatments no matter what, and you're looking for a way to justify not trying room treatments at all, just ignore my previous paragraph...

[mick wolfe]

Perhaps the man with this set up likes the sound configuration this way. And that's ok, if it meets his needs right? Even though many of us may agree or disagree.

  His room, his ear, his call.